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This is the start of a new series, that will hopefully bring new ideas and tactics to the forums. Each week, a new topic will be posted up about a different unit in the army book. This gives you your chance to discuss the unit to its fullest. So, please leave your comment!
What is the optimal unit size for them? Is the command options worth the points? How do they work in the army?
Im new to the empire, in fact im going to trade some dwarves I started last edition to a budy of mine for any empire he dosen't want so I dont have much exp using outriders. Going over there stats they have a great BS, the fast calvery is good, I think there only downfall is that there rifles are move or fire. Im used to using Dark Riders so when I look at any fast calvery I want something that can move at its max speed, shoot and still be able to flee when I want. While outrides are great, I just think that Pistolers do the job just as well for a few points less.
I'm still not entirely sold on Outriders...
Good Points: Fast Cavalry means that Outriders have a 360 degree Line of Sight, and can do a number of interesting reforms. High Ballistic Skill with Repeater Handguns means they can lay down a fair amount of fire and expect to kill some things. Longer Range than Pistolliers- 4 Times longer, in fact.
Bad Points: Move or Fire Weapons. To me, this entirely kills the point of Fast Cavalry, namely to run circles around slower enemies and unload their bullets into them. Sure they can march block, but then they become a nuisance, not a threat.
Other points: they can be given Barding to up their save to 4+, but then they lose fast Cav. However, for the reason above, it isn't as big of a loss as it would otherwise seem. However, they then loose their 360 degree LOS, making them effectively armoured handgunners that can move fast. If we then compare an outrider to Handgunners and you can get about 5 Handgunners for slightly under the cost of 2 Outriders (5 shots to 4) at effectively the same odds to hit.
To me, I'd rather that the Pistolliers to do the traditional fast cavalry work- they have pistols, which ignore long range and movement penalties to shoot, and are fast enough to generally run circles around most enemy infantry and unload shots into them. If I had to take Outriders, I would use them to protect my Warmachines from enemy attack (and, with all around LOS, stop those pesky Wood Elf Waywatchers from being TOO annoying...).
As for unit sizes, I find any more than 6 Pistolliers is too large, and 5 is probably enough. With their fast cav movement, it should be possible to keep them largely away from concentrated enemy fire, but if they're too large in number, this becomes tricky. Outiders, on the other had, should be fairly large, about the same size as a Knightly Order unit. Since they aren't moving much you don't really need 2 units of them (save the special slots for things like Inner Circle Knights and War Machines), and let them unload as much fire as possible. Plus they're armoured (as good as Greatswords with the Barding), so they can stand up to more fire than the average Handgunner unit.
Pistols - 8 inches
R. Handguns - 24 inches
Additionally, Pistoliers can move 16" and then fire their pistols 8" which essentially makes it the same effective distance as shooting with outriders.
I use outriders in about 5 or 6 a unit with the champion using brace of pistols + repeater pistol. I don't put barding on them and I like to keep them kind of back but on the sides of my line because their firepower is really deadly.
I equip the champion with a pistol + repeater pistol so that their stand & shoot reaction is at 8 inches giving it short range verse long range if he had a repeater HG as well. Also its nice to move 16" then fire at an enemy block with 4 shots at BS5 with only -1 modifier for multiple shots.
Last edited by gunsmoke; February 23rd, 2010 at 07:07. Reason: spelling!
Pistoliers are much more fun to play though! The problem I find with pistoliers is that they are easily killed because you do have to move to get in range and most armys will easily shoot them down.
A mobile firebase just gives you extra options, I find. I usually sacrifice a turn of shooting with my Outriders to maneuver into a really awkward place - the enemy either takes big losses are has to change his game plan, either way he's on the backfoot and you're in control.
I haven't played with outriders, but noted that people are comparing them with pistoliers. I find pistoliers are much better used to harass warmachines and flanks in combat than straight shooting. I would say that outriders best use is as a mobile fire base to wear down units and threaten with flanking posture. Also Gunsure mentioned 16" move and fire, not sure (rulebook not in front of me) but you can't march move and fire (maybe fast cavalry can)
Knight Order stated Outriders cost vs handgunners and stated you could get 5 handgunner shots for 4 outriders, i'm guessing this is based on only firing outriders 2xmultiple shot, whereas they are able to deliver 3xmultiple shot, which in my opinion has a better potential. Plus you will probably not be able to get too many shots from handgunner regiment unless on elevated terrain.
The one advantage I can see for them is that no one really seems to like master engineer as character, outriders champion therefore is the perfect bearer for grenade launching blunderbuss against trolls and tough characters. high BS high S AP, the rest of the unit can hopefully deal enough wounds out to finish off what remains.
Cheese… milk's leap toward immortality
I may not have been clear in my reply, but that exactly what I thought you meant!
5 handgunner shots for 4 outriders' shots,.............. with only using Multiple shotx2 to bring 'hit roll' roll to level.
I was just commenting that you can 'potentially' get more shots from outriders.
Saying all this I'm a huge fan of handgunners, they are a core in my army and I love my pistoliers more than Outriders, apart from the Blunderbuss thing that i just thought of for my previous entry, that now makes me want to test an outrider unit.
Cheese… milk's leap toward immortality