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How do people see flaggies going in 8th Ed?
The step up rule and being able to fight in two ranks, strength 5 in the first round and being able to sacrifice models to get rerolls to hit and wound. Sounds like it could be quite nasty against monsters and the like.
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I think they'll do great things against smaller units of elite infantry...which is exactly the sort of unit I see exiting stage left in 8th. I expect to see lots of gunlines and lots of melee hordes in 8th. Heavy cav regiments will have to bulk up their numbers to stay relevant, which will in turn limit the points left over for the supporting cast even more. Five blood knights eats up a ton of points as it is...if you have to bump it to eight, that's a 60% increase in order to generate the barest hope that the unit will continue to function the way it always has, and it's one or two fewer units or characters that the VC player is fielding, to boot. Elite infantry will have the same problem...10-15 models fighting in 2 ranks won't cut it when you're fighting against an enemy with a wider frontage fighting 3 deep. But it's exactly this kind of unit, elite infantry, that a 10x3 unit of flaggies will send off with little fanfare. I'm just not sure how many people will first of all field a unit like this, and second of all allow it to come face to face with 30 rabid sigmarites... I'm even thinking long and hard about retiring the 20 greatswords that have heretofore served as the BSB bus in the center of my line... I can get 30 swordsmen to do the same job better for fewer points. Unless the "outnumber to get stubborn" inspires GW to make greatswords ITP... which isn't entirely unlikely, given that everyone and his dog is currently ITP.
Last edited by Marnepup; July 6th, 2010 at 19:48.
IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010
I feel like Flagellants are a big point waste in 8th. Sure, they became stronger with an extra rank of attacks and removing from the rear. Problem is that the enemy got that too. So now you are facing the full force of retaliation from your enemy and things don't look good for you: WS 2, T 3 and no armor save. Any size unit is going to go down in 2-3 turns easy, unless you make it a permanent part of your plan to regenerate them with Lore of Life. But I still see it as a waste of points that could of gone to something that would actually stay in the fight rather than being a one hit wonder.
If a unit is strong enough to dismantle 30 flagellants in 2-3 rounds, it will dismantle 40 spearmen in the same time frame, The only difference is that one will fight to a man, and the other is prone to fleeing. there is no better flank guard in the Empire army than a strong unit of flagellants.
Martyrs, make them very deadly. We can buff them via magic too. WS10 I10 rerolling to hit and to wound on S5 or give them the time warp for more giggles.
They are a very reliable hammer when a monster gets to your lines. They never fail to tarpit whatever I need to hold in place for the timeframe I need. Many opponents even avoid them like the plague.
If they are attack a unit with a WS up to 4, they will cause alot of damage. on a WS 4 T4 unit, you can expect as much as 12 casualties inflicted with 2 martyrs. That's more than any onther unit we have in combat, (barring say, A steam tank with alot of steam points!)
I may be wrong about this, and please correct me if I am, but I havent seen anywhere in the new BRB that chargers get to strike first in the first round the combat. I'm only seeing combats go strictly by initiative. If this is the case, flagellants are pretty useless as a offensive force. Maybe its mostly because I play elf armies but, flagellants need to strike first in the combat if they are going to get kills.
Also, it seems to me that being Unbreakable isnt as good as it was before. With Fear / Terror no longer auto-breaking, and large ranks giving stubborn, unbreakable just isnt the same.
One only nice thing, is that the new frenzy rule allows them to take a Ld test to opt out of a charge they would be forced into. And with Ld. 10 they wont have any probs passing that.
That being said, I really dont see a clear good use for neither flagellants or greatswords with 8th edition, for the reasons given in the upper posts.
meh .. double post
Last edited by Tashin; July 14th, 2010 at 10:38.
Initiative is a moot point until the unit gets very low in model count. flagellants will be killing alot of models even after they have lost the flail bonus.
I don't understand why people assume that everything will be stubborn. You need to have more ranks that your opponent to be stubborn. not going to happen when the both of you have large units, and your flagellants/ great swords have cut a bloody swath in them. I don't think we'll be stubborn very long against units like chaos warrior, who will be trouncing most of our troops at an alarming rate.
The only asset that truely matter for unbreakable as always been that they will never break from combat. this is an insurrance policy. Flagellants will hold something in place long enough for you to deal with other threats. Once they have gone through them, you will be free to concentrate on the threat at hand. You are sacraficing points to yield more time and reap more in return.