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so ive had big issues with lizardmen skinks of late. I just dont feel i can ever kill the little buggers. My oppenint typically takes 3-4 units of 15 plus 1-2 units of chamelons and 2 units of salamendrs. Poison means he can kill warmachines easy with shooting and hes learned the needs to do that fast. also he can take scores of spearmen/flaggelants down from his massed shooting/stand and shooting in exhcnage for me onlykilling 100 pts worth of skinks.
Shooting from handgunners/hellblasters has not been effective as the already not great BS is not helped when he is a skirmisher and often in the woods
I have found steam tanks, knights and mortars all work well but i feel as though i am wasting them on skinks (like morters on salamanders as they do S6 with D3 wounds plus kill handlers, knights also need to kill salamanders or else they just sit away from my troops and kill buckets of state troops.)
Any suggestions? Ive though of magic... but metal doesnt help vs skinis/salamanders, life, shadow both and light all dont have great damange spells for skrimishers. And i feel like im wasting a mage taking fire.
I don't understand how you feel that you're wasting resources by killing something that is so clearly such a thorn in your side. Yes, your Knights could be off skewering Saurus and Temple-guard, but if you win the battle, how does that help you if you lose the war?
Too many people are hung-up on the idea of "winning your points back". This is a lie, and only really works on the most basic levels of Math-hammer. It is also part of what makes Warhammer great- the regiment's performance as usefulness is not measured by how many points it can kill alone, but by how well it can fit into your battle plan. For example:
10 Pistoliers charge into a regiment of elf archers escorting a mage. On their way across the field, and after the elven ASF, there are only 2 pistoliers left, but they manage to kill the mage before the elves break them and run them down. Now- did they earn back their points?
Well- that was probably 187pts of Pistoliers if you had a musician. And that mage was probably only about 150pts. So you come up 37pts short.
But wait: if that mage had lore of Metal, had survived, and cast a spell on your Knights, killing a full regiment, he could have easily cost you 250pts in a single turn alone. By neutralizing this threat, you've essentially traded 187pts for 400pts over the course of the game- more than worth it.
Skinks are notoriously hard to kill, because of their skirmish, and their opportunities to Stand-and-Shoot. You could use Miasma from Lore of Shadows to knock down their WS, and then charge. Their poison is deadly, but if they need 6's to hit, it won't work. For their scouts, you could deploy scouts of your own in the form of Huntsmen. They won't out-shoot the skinks, but they might outfight them, or atleast deny them the cover that they want to deploy in.
Remember also that Skinks have short-ranged weapons. Try to stay away from the Skinks or lure them out of the trees. Whenever you take turns to deploy terrain, keep the forests outside of his range, so that he has to leave the forests and fall victim to your shooting. Don't forget that you need to roll to see what the forest actually does. There's a good chance that it will have a negative effect, and he won't want to stand in there for very long.
You wouldn't be wasting a Wizard- they're only 95pts for a L2 (can't post naked costs). Grab one and go to town, if you kill a regiment of skinks, you aren't losing that much in point-per-point anyways, even without counting the amount of points you've saved yourself.
I can't believe your opponent is taking so many skinks! They should be bulking up on Saurus, since they're the real bread-and-butter of a Lizardmen army. If he wants to field skinks, just charge him. He can declare 1 S&S per round- send in a cheap detachment, and a regiment of state-troops. The detachment is enough to kill all the skinks, if he decides to shoot at the staties. How many skinks is he running in a single regiment? Your staties should have about 30 men in each regiment, so he'd need 15 skinks just to cover each of your men, and he'd be hitting on 6's, so poison wouldn't have an effect.
I understand your point, and i completely agree with your mage scenario, the problem with the skinks is that because they tend to deploy on sides and edges of battlefield anything that goes after them tends to come out of the line and then spend several turns, if not the rest of the game trying to get back into the fight. (my opponent feels that if he trades 70 pts of skinks for getting a 300 pt unit to wander around on the edges of the table all game hes done his job). I meant wasted just in terms of the things that kill skinks are also needed in the battle plan to deal with bigger threats (sarus and salamanders) and so i think they are more effective at that roll, if i didnt have to go after salamanders with my knights i would be more than happy to spend them skink hunting all game.
i was thinking about a pegasus captain with the potion of foolhardiness... 6 attacks on the charge should deal with most of the skinks and i can get him a 2+ save which should give him a good chance to survive the stand and shoot. And he could then spend games vs non lizards hunting war machines or rouge wizards..
the guy i specifically play tends to take 2 large blocks 1 of sarus and one of temple guard plus all the skinks and as many salamanders as he can fit in. i have had sucess with detachements going around chasing skinks but it still is annoying and leaves my state troops with no countercharge.
If he wants to cheese out- gunlines have no problem gutting his Saurus regiments down to nothing. Use your blackpowder against them, and then use your detachments to hunt down and kill his skinks just like you have been. The idea would be to go ahead and waste your Sate-troops fighting skinks, because you've already done plenty of damage to his Saurus elements.
If he's taking hordes of cheap regiments, maybe consider trying the same. Last I checked, skinks are 5-6pts/model, but a Saurus is 13 or something. Salamanders are a mystery for me- my opponent doesn't use them much, as he prefers Razordons.
My guess would be that a Mortar or Cannon is roughly as much as a Razordon, that Sate Troops (or better yet- Free Co) can go almost 1:1 with his Skinks, and that you can get twice as many handgunners as he has Saurus. Give him a taste of his own medicine.
MSU knights? A unit of five is reasonably priced, will wreck skinks (especially since they don't get rank bonuses), and can then hit the depleted-by-handgunners saurus in the flank or rear. Three or four units of five knights sounds good to me.
Last edited by Marnepup; September 17th, 2010 at 21:25.
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so played a lizardman guy in the championship round of a local tourney... i decided the way to kill skinks is to blast them with mortars, 10-15 skinks under a template means wounding on 3+ = lots of dead skinks... took 2 units out right away while my hellstorm blew away huge chunks of saurus (lucky scatters... but ill take what i can get)... after 3 or so mortar shots at skinks they were down far enough to not worry me, and then i could just blast salamanders and saurus. Won the game and the tourney (though even with my awsome template weapon luck my steam tank was down to 1 wound and i only had 2 of 30 flaggies left... either of those dead and it would have been minor victory to opponent).... fear temple guard with armor peircing banner... 21 attacks auto hit wound on 6s, -3 to armor save = 2-3 wounds on steam tank per turn...gross.