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    Detachments and Buildings

    How do Detachments function when their Parent units are garrisoned in buildings?
    Specifically, the Counter-charge. Can they stop the assaulting unit before it gets to the building, thus preventing the assault? Can they still stand and shoot while the assault goes in? Or can they do nothing at all?

    Interested in all your thoughts.

    Zutta

    The careful application of terror is a form of communication in itself - Zutta Law #4.

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    Looking at the battle report in January's white dwarf it looks like they can act normally when their parent unit is in a building. Please correct me if I am wrong.

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    Son of LO Marnepup's Avatar
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    ~shrug~ I don't see them preventing an assault against a building, but I see no reason they can't shoot at the assaulters, or hit them in the flank as they charge the building.
    IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
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    I would say they could stand & shoot or countercharge, but the last one is a bit tricky. The rules state that a unit inside a building is always steadfast and that combat resolution only counts casualties. The problem is that the detachment is not inside a building and outside a flank charge would give +2 combat resolution or even 3 if they charge from a hill.

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    So how does the detachment avoid the "only 1 unit in or assaulting each building at a time" rule with their counter-charge?
    The careful application of terror is a form of communication in itself - Zutta Law #4.

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    Maybe when the parent unit is inside a building they count as being outside the minimum range for a detachment and so the unit simply becomes an independent unit. That's just speculation I can't remember reading it anywhere.

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    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    Only one unit is allowed to occupy a building at a time, and only one unit may assault into a building, but that doesn't mean that you can't engage the regiment outside of the building with additional units.
    The player assaulting the building will nominate up to 10 attackers, while the garrisoned force nominates 10 defenders. Those two sections fight against one another, while the rest of the assaulting regiment, and the regiment outside of the building, fight as normal.
    Detachments can "Countercharge" just as they normally would, provided they can reach the enemy. You can never "intercept" a charge with a detachment- the enemy must have already moved into contact against the parent unit before the detachment can declare a counter charge.
    When it comes to combat resolution, only the regiments fighting outside of the building count their ranks, flanks, charges, banners, etc. The unit in the building will always be steadfast though, as per the Building rules. This means that the Detachment will get +2 (Charge/Flank) and possibly points for ranks, while the enemy will also count as Charging and add their rank bonus and other bonuses if applicable.

    This is how we've always played it at my store- it seems sort of silly that you can't try to bail your friends out just because they're trapped in a building. In reality, other regiments would attack into the yard and try to stop the attackers from pressing further into the building.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

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    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    Only one unit is allowed to occupy a building at a time, and only one unit may assault into a building, but that doesn't mean that you can't engage the regiment outside of the building with additional units.
    The player assaulting the building will nominate up to 10 attackers, while the garrisoned force nominates 10 defenders. Those two sections fight against one another, while the rest of the assaulting regiment, and the regiment outside of the building, fight as normal.
    Detachments can "Countercharge" just as they normally would, provided they can reach the enemy. You can never "intercept" a charge with a detachment- the enemy must have already moved into contact against the parent unit before the detachment can declare a counter charge.
    When it comes to combat resolution, only the regiments fighting outside of the building count their ranks, flanks, charges, banners, etc. The unit in the building will always be steadfast though, as per the Building rules. This means that the Detachment will get +2 (Charge/Flank) and possibly points for ranks, while the enemy will also count as Charging and add their rank bonus and other bonuses if applicable.

    This is how we've always played it at my store- it seems sort of silly that you can't try to bail your friends out just because they're trapped in a building. In reality, other regiments would attack into the yard and try to stop the attackers from pressing further into the building.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

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    Sounds good so far, Sarathi.

    So how have/would you handle it if the 10 guys from the assault unit break the Steadfast unit in the building, but the rest of the assaulting unit lose the combat outside?
    The careful application of terror is a form of communication in itself - Zutta Law #4.

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    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    It all counts as a single combat, but the ranks/banners/bonuses from the unit inside the building are not counted (they're in a building, they don't have ranks and can't see their flag anyways). As long as they're in combat with someone else outside the building, the assaulting unit will get applicable bonuses. Just note that the unit in the building is always Steadfast.

    If assaulting unit wins combat, then both the Parent and Detachment would have to take a break check. If the Steadfast Parent unit in the building fails and breaks, but the Detachment holds, then the combat is still taking place. Normally, if you break a unit in a building, you can't pursue- you can only move into the building. But just like any multiple combat, you cannot pursue if you are still engaged by an enemy unit. So if they break the Parent but are still fighting the Detachment, then they can't get into the building and the fight continues outside.

    It's similar to fighting over a defended obstacle.

    Parent Unit (In building) - Steadfast. Does not count Ranks or Banners. May nominate 10 models to fight in combat.
    Enemy Unit (assaulting building) - Does not count Ranks, Banners, or other bonuses against the Parent unit (still count against the Detachment). May nominate 10 models to fight in the combat against the building.
    Detachment (flanking enemy unit, outside the building) - Counts all bonuses against the enemy and fights in Base-Contact as normal.

    The rules are very washy on this subject. You're actually hurting your odds by charging the detachment into the building, because they lack ranks or a banner (which count now) and are relying on kills just like the regiment inside the building. Since the enemy now gets to count their bonuses, it's very likely that you'll lose combat more frequently, and be testing on the Steadfast Ld more often.

    Another way, which is more complicated but a bit more fair, is to treat the combats as being separate entirely. You have the 10v10 struggle inside the building, and you have the Unit Vs Unit struggle outside. If the unit in the building wins, then the enemy unit has to take a break test. If the Enemy beats the Detachment outside, then the Detachment has to test. For this reason, both regiments might end up testing in the same phase. A little weird, but more fair than my earlier idea.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

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