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  1. #1
    Senior Member Taubeast's Avatar
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    Starting Empire: What to get?

    Well, my brother has just decided to start playing as the Empire, while my other brother and I play Lizardmen and High Elves, respectively. We will be starting off at 1500 points, so what does my Empire brother need to get to start off? I know a wizard, and probably like a cannon, but what else?

    Tau Empire: We never stop hiding from you

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  3. #2
    Organised Chaos saltrock36's Avatar
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    Lo,

    You want big blocks of infantry at least 30 men strong going on 40, along with detachments to support. Empire are pretty weak unless you field numbers so go big. I would recomend Halberdiers 40 strong in horde formation, with a detachment of swordsmen and another detachment of ranged troops, either handgunners or crossbowmen. (crossbows have longer range but your more likely to cut through armour with handghuns). Take 2 builds similar to above and that will make a good base to your army. (maybe only want 1 block of 40 halberdiers in horde formation and another big block of spearmen to act more as an anchor.

    Then your characters, you could sneek in a lvl 4 at 1500 pts, but otherwise go for lvl 2 with something that lets him take an extra spell if there is anything like that, (been a while since iv used my empire). One character which is a must is a BSB for Empire. You need to be able to reroll that average Ld so a basic bsb will do, dont worry about magical standards. get him a 1+ save and he should be ok.

    Then with what ever points you have spare add some flavour to the army. A Cannon is a good start, then if playing big block units i would suggest a morta, or if your feeling realy lucky take a hellstorm rocket battery instead of a morta.

    This is a good start, but if you have any points left over you may want to experiment with pistoliers to guard flanks, or at the moment im liking kinghts with great weapons and inner circle. They may only have a 3+ save but having S6 all the time is useful if you bog them down in combat which is what is happening with alot of cavalry with so many big units kicking about at the moment.

    Hope this helps.


    -Saltrock-

  4. #3
    Son of LO Marnepup's Avatar
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    I disagree with a lot of what saltrock is saying...but it probably depends on where you're playing.

    IMHO, state troops exist to do three things. First, deny steadfastness to the enemy by having more ranks than him. This means that the horde formation is a very bad idea, and it also means that you need AT LEAST 40, if not 60, men per regiment. Second, deny the enemy CR by minimizing casualties. That means swordsmen, not halberdiers. It's true that halberdiers inflict more casualties than swordsmen because of their higher strength, but they surrender more CR by dying almost automatically than they earn with their extra point of strength. Third, of course, is having a melee detachment large enough to disrupt, earning an automatic shift of static CR in your favor. Since the detachment is supposed to be in the enemy flank, it won't have much in the way of enemy attacks coming its way, so it makes some sense to put halberdiers here, where their vulnerability (lower WS, less armor, no parry) is less of a liability, and you still get some S4 attacks into the melee.

    IMHO, shooty troops should be independent regiments. First, it gives you ultimate flexibility in terms of where to deploy them, they aren't tied to a parent regiment. Second, other than the horrible bowmen, they're move-or-shoot, and if you want to move the parent regiment, you almost always have to allow the link between parent and shooty detachment to be broken, or move the detachment instead of shooting with it. Third, having more units to deploy means that you can delay a little longer before placing your artillery, giving you a better chance at best possible fields of fire (assuming you don't get a hill to put it on). Furthermore, I think 2/3 of your shooters (assuming you have multiple regiments) should be crossbowmen. This is especially true when facing high elves, since the long range of the elven longbow would shred handgunners without allowing them to shoot back. The extra point of AP is important enough that at least some handguns are a good idea, but range trumps AP if you can only take one unit.

    For artillery, I recommend the special choices, not the rare ones. Cannon should be taken in pairs, with a (naked, he shouldn't be doing anything but granting rerolls) engineer to babysit. One cannon is unreliable, two is decent, and two with an engineer is virtually guaranteed to do the job. Mortars use large enough templates that you can, in a pinch, field them solo. They do benefit from redundancy, but they don't require it. I prefer to field two cannon, two mortars, and one engineer. The engineer generally deploys with the cannon, while the mortars spread out to make life harder for enemy warmachine hunters, but in situations where the cannon are not needed, they become sacrificial speedbumps, and in situations where the mortars can win the game singlehandedly, they get paired up with engineer support.

    The most important thing about empire, IMHO, is warrior priests. They are support characters through and through, and that's what your regiments need. Priestly prayers are cheap, low risk, and some of them are RiP. They are just good enough that the enemy will be unable to ignore them, so they can be used early in your magic phase to draw out DD, or the RiP ones can be used at the end of the phase to encourage the enemy to spend power dice to dispel them in his own phase. That last bit, in combination with the fact that they give you bonus DD, makes them, not wizard lords, the key to magical dominance...and all while they're providing a leadership boost and some melee output to one of your regiments.

    My advice in terms of getting a new empire army off the ground is to buy a battalion or two, some character blisters, and more state troops. You're going to want tons of state troops, most of them swordsmen, but some (minimum 15 per) halberdiers for detachments. Spam blocks of 40-60 swordsmen with 15-20 halberdiers in support, led by a WP, and don't forget to put a BSB (give him magic armor, not a magic banner. Rerolling leadership is FAR more important than anything a banner does for you, and you won't be doing that if he's dead!) in the center regiment. Support that with some artillery and shooting, throw in a wizard lord (life and light seem to be the most popular lores for empire, followed by shadows), and there's your army. At 1500 points, you can't afford much more than the basics, but in larger games, feel free to spice things up with some cavalry, a stank (which is super cheesy at 1500 ), or my favorite (also cheesy at lower points levels), a war altar. If you get to 3k points, taking Karl Franz with hammer on dragonback will take you most of the way to 4k with a single model, but to be honest, his awesomeness is WAY too AYEIOB below the 4k level.

    /edit/

    And never, never, never, never take spearmen. 5-10 extra S3 WS3 attacks is piss poor compared to having S4 for the same cost, or an extra pip of armor, a parry save, AND an extra pip of WS for a point/model more.
    Last edited by Marnepup; July 11th, 2011 at 05:30.
    IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
    Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010

  5. #4
    Senior Member BarnyCarhamich's Avatar
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    Can I piggyback here? I'm just starting as well, and just purchased the battalion box; are musicians and standards the sort of thing that should always/never be taken (should I build them?)? And is there any general consensus on best way to kit knights? and last question, crossbows v. handgunners?

  6. #5
    Son of LO Marnepup's Avatar
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    I take fc on all regiments... The static cr from the banna wava is worth it and then some. And the quick reform is awesome. I don't use knights... The range of Xbows trumps the AP of handguns... If you're taking 30 or more, take 2/3 crossbows... If less, take only crossbows.
    IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
    Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010

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