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  1. #1
    Organised Chaos saltrock36's Avatar
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    Getting back into Empire.

    Lo all.

    After seeing a very nicely painted and based empire army recently on the GW UK site i have decided to strip the paint and bases from my boxed up empire and create an an army that looks good. I have found a product that will strip the paint off plastic models without any damage and a bargin price, so it will save me from having splodgey models due to paint layers, and have also found a supplier of plasticard stone pathing effect to base all my models. The real question is how to transfer the models i have from an early 7th ed stirland force into a generic and workable 8th ed force?

    Im looking at a 1500pt force to begin with going to 2250pt, (dont know if this is an ideal starting point for Empire in 8th Ed,) using the models i already have, and apreciat that some of the units will have to be combined and that i will probably have to buy a few more bits, so il show a list of what i have and wht i have in mind.

    I currently (or at least used to run with):

    2 x 25 Spearmen fc
    + Detachment 9 Free Company
    + Detachment 5 Huntsmen

    1 x 25 Swordsmen fc
    + Detachment 9 Free Company
    + Detachment 5 Huntsmen

    2 x 5 Pistoliers musican

    1 Morta

    24 Flagelants

    Empire General on Gryphon

    Mounted bsb (used to be in swordsmen but no more obviously)

    2 Empire Wizards

    (it was meant to be Stirland based hence the choice of detachments, and the number of sugested by an Empire player at my local store.)

    I also have access to:

    10 knights

    2 cannon

    Hellstorm/Hellblaster (depending on which gun part i put on as they are interchangable)


    What im an looking at whilst using as many models as possible as i already have is:

    40-50 Spearmen FC
    + (need help with ideas for detachments)

    40-50 Swordsmen FC (will have to buy a few more to bulk out)
    + ?? of Halbadiers + (need help with other Detachment if any)

    Do i need another big block here? or should i maybe get a line of handgunners?

    2 Cannon

    ?? Knights (not sure how many or how to equip these guys command/magic banner wise, but as for weapons (and i know it might not be popular) i am intending to take the top half of empire Great Swords to convert some Knights with great weapons. I know it means the armour save isnt as good, but i think they will look good and be a nice change to a lance.

    Unit of pistoliers (should i have 2 units? does 5 in a unit still work or should i combine my 2 smaller units to make a slightly bigger one?

    Was hoping to use another General of the Empire as general but what are your opinions? i dont even mind using a gryphon, however, i draw the line at the Pope-Mobile. As good as it may be i just have never likde it that much.

    BSB on foot

    Wizard, may try for a lvl 3-4 depending on my generals cost but other wise lvl 2

    Warrior preist/2nd wizard.


    Anyway. Any and all opinions on which way to take the army would be appreciated and welcome. If i finaly get round to it li look at trying to get some WIP photos taken so i can post them up.


    Thanks again,


    Saltrock


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  3. #2
    Son of LO Marnepup's Avatar
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    Do you have the ability to rearm the spearmen with swords? Spearmen are the worst possible infantry...

    Other than that...I'd say that two blocks of infantry are probably sufficient, but what you're really missing is a hammer to those anvils...the knights could serve, if you give them great weapons, I guess.

    You'll want the detachments (you really only need one per) to be 15-18 strong so they can take a couple of casualties and still disrupt.

    You'll want to use the cannons, and get another mortar..my standard loadout is two of each...with one engineer to babysit whichever artillery type I decide during setup is more critical.
    IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
    Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010

  4. #3
    Organised Chaos saltrock36's Avatar
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    Good advice.

    Dug them out today to find what i had to hand,and think the first best buy will be the battalion. I should have enought men to then make 20 more swordsmen to add to my current 25 (will probbaly but more in future so i can field 2 units of 40-50 in bigger games. I will then have spare arms if im thinking right from the state troops box to convert most of my exsisting spearmen into halbadiers.

    I will also gain the bits i need for converting the knights with the greatswords, and gain some bodies and legs in the mix to convert into another 10 state troops. The handgunners/crossbowmen i have yet to decide how to use.

    It was my thought also that my list had no real hammer unit, somthing that i realy suffered with using my army as a 7th ed stirland force. Is there anything you would suggest? Like i said, i dont like the War Alter but have been leaning towards a STank. I have been told they are not that good in 8th but i have yet to see evidence as such.

    Thanks again,


    Saltrock

  5. #4
    Son of LO Marnepup's Avatar
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    I haven't used a stank ever, but I have used a Walter...and it's as good as advertised! If it didn't give you two bonus DD, it would probably be balanced, but the DD put it solidly in the "cheese" category. I think Greatswords are a marginal hammer unit, flaggies don't do the job at all, and knights need to have great weapons to qualify. That's kind of the problem with empire...you have access to an unusually wide variety of magic lores, excellent artillery, decent shooters...1+ save (but limited offensive output) knights...but in terms of hammers and anvils, the core of the game, as it were, you're second rate, at best. I think the idea is that being top-notch at all of the supporting tasks is supposed to make up for shortcomings in the game's core. I guess...priests (in addition to boosting magic defense) make good, and cheap, sergeants for your regiments...to the point that a sword horde with a priest makes a VERY respectable anvil unit...but we don't have a similar "take this plus this" answer to the hammer problem. That said...under some circumstances, we don't need hammers...large enough sword hordes, through the magic of bringing along their own flank support (15-18 hlaberdier detachment), can grind out a victory against an enemy regiment through sheer attrition...and throw in a little magical support, and they outright break enemy units without assistance from a hammer. I dunno...I'm kinda partial to the plan of "pummel them with mortars as they approach, then outnumber and outflank them with sword horde+halberdier detachment" battle plan. When magic fails (offensively, with priestly support, you can reliably shut down any enemy's offensive magic), you merely hold your own, when even one decent spell gets off, you pull ahead.

    Anyway, for hammer units, look at greatsword kaniggits (especially KOTIC with GW), walters, and stanks...we don't really have anything else that qualifies...
    IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
    Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010

  6. #5
    Organised Chaos saltrock36's Avatar
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    107 (x4)

    Right, after a few atempts at colour schemes i have decided on Talabecland. It also has a nice bit of background and although i will not be using the red and white of Talabhiem, having all my models based on city pathing will fit in nice with the idea o the walled city state. I may at a later date use he red and white for a few units to bind the amry so it looks like the army is being pooled together in the main city itself.

    For now i think i will steer away from WAlter, but with it being as good as you recomend it may have to make an apperance later on, but probably converted from a Stank or somthing. I may be able to get the stank put together not entirely glued (maybe use some of my magnets in places,) so i can interchange parts to and from a stank to a Walter. But for now going to try nd get 1500pts done, and hopefully some pics once my first unit is dont or mostley done. Going to need some more Iyanden Darksun and Mechrite Red this weekend.

  7. #6
    Son of LO Marnepup's Avatar
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    Iyanden Darksun
    Is absolutely amazing...as an undercoat for yellow and gold, with a sepia wash for lighter (pine, oak) wood, as step one for ancient, weathered (TK, not VC) skellies...one of my favorite citadel paints!
    IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
    Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010

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    Putting a Priest in with a Unit of Greatswords can give you quite a hammer. Re-rolling with WS4 is pretty good.
    The careful application of terror is a form of communication in itself - Zutta Law #4.

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    Organised Chaos saltrock36's Avatar
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    Lo all.

    Has a go at the colour scheme over the past few days... the red looks fine (mechrite, devlan, then highlight blood red) the yellow on the other hand i just cannot get to look nice. I mean it will do at a distance and looks ok, but up close its feathered and "grainy" (iyanden, sepia, golden yellow), may have to look at mixing the iyanden and golden yellow together for the highlight rather than dive straight for golden. Im finding that Golden yellow just isnt going on the way i want it. If i cannot get it to look right i may even edge towards hochland or nuln for a colour scheme.

    The problem i have with greatswords is that;
    1) they make you re-mortgage you house for a unit, especialy if you want more than 20. (may have to look at unit fillers if i was to go 20+)
    2) Everyone knows its your hammer unit so you either boost thier defence or accept your going to take losses and so do you either pay to beef the unit up or sacrifice them.

    The basis for my list i have in mind is as follows for 1500pts;

    30 Swordsmen fc +15 halbadiers detachment

    30 Swordsmen fc +15 halbadiers detachment

    10 Handgunners +Marksman +Hochland rifle

    10 Handgunners +Marksman +Hochland rifle

    Cannon

    Morta

    Character wise im thinking Lvl2, BSB, and Archlector but not given them much thought, especialy the mage who im not sure which lore to take. Had this have been high elves or dark elves i would have known exactly what i was doing but with Empire im a bit clueless as to the best lore. Was thinking light for some reason, maybe even fire.

    Thanks again.

  10. #9
    Son of LO Marnepup's Avatar
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    Few recommendations based on my own mistakes (mostly).

    1. 2xHLR per list is basically a waste of points...if you aren't taking 8+ HLRs in the list, you aren't going to be doing anything useful with them.

    2. 30 Swordsmen is....almost adequate. I wouldn't play with fewer than 35 and wouldn't be comfortable with fewer than 40. That said, the detachments are ideal!

    3. I'd probably put a priest in each swordsmen regiment...you can get most of the required points for the second one by downgrading the AL.

    4. I'd take two cannon or two mortars, not one of each...they're (cannons especially) too unreliable to take just one. At 2k+, I take two of each and at least one (naked, he's going to be too busy granting rerolls to do anything else!) engineer. At 1500...two of either one is probably pretty decent, but one of each is asking for bad luck. It only rains when you leave your umbrella at home, and your cannon only overshoots, or sticks in the mud 1" in front of the enemy, or misfires, when you don't have a second one standing by to reengage the target.

    Overall, it looks like a decent infantry list...what lore for the mage? I know the popular choices are life, light, and shadow...but I'm about to start a trial of lore of heavens...it seems....well, I've seen brets get amazing outcomes from it.
    IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
    Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010

  11. #10
    Organised Chaos saltrock36's Avatar
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    Hmmm, i see what your saying.

    I was looking at the 2 hochlands just to be bothersome to wizards at 1500pts who decided to go without protection, but hitting 1/3 of the time and then on average wounding with 3s on most wizards...im not sure i might play test them a bit. But then again for that price i can almost afford an Engineer, or another unit of handgunners.

    In the case that i therefore go without the hochlands im faced with 2 choices;

    1) Do i buy them as detachments (allowing support fire but suffering the draw back of having to set up close to the perant unit),

    or

    2) Keep them independant (in which case i can field them where i like, but then is 10 enough, and is it worth giving them a musician).

    Ok, so say i went 40 swordsmen, what is the most effective way of fielding said unit. Asmuch as HORDE is screaming out i highly doubt that is it, and probably no wider than 6 models.

    Similar question with the halbardiers, im guessing 5x3 despite a larger frontage giving more attacks.

    Im going to have to go with 2 cannons i think, if only because i have both models where as my morta is in bits still to be put together in many different bits boxes. if i have the points i may try to squeeze in a morta along with the 2 cannons, in which case il look into taking an engineer.

    Lore of Heavens? really? I look at and just think to myslef that it is probably weaker than in 7th. I had considered going old school with Fire. I dont see anyone in my local using it anymore as they tend to stick to shadow, life, and death (or army specific lores), might also help against things with regen.

    With just 375pts open for my heros, and looking at a Wizard, 2 Warrior Priests and a bsb,im considering taking one warrior priest naked if the other one is going to end up my general. Im not too sure iv got the balance of characters rite with the forementioned choices and might even consider loosing the Wizard if the Warrior Priests can provide enough defense.

    So... this is what im looking at so far:

    40 Swordsmen (full command) = 265
    15 Halbardiers (detachment) = ##

    40 Swordsmen (full command) = 265
    15 Halbardiers (detachment) = ##

    10 Handgunners (musician) = 85

    10 Handgunners (musician) = 85

    Cannon = ##

    Cannon = ##

    Total 1050pts (without characters)

    Assuming i go with a Warrior priest general with 50pts worth of magic items; a naked warrior preist with basic items, a naked lvl 2 wizard, and a bsb with at least 25pts of magic items it comes to just about bang on 1500pts. (I havent chosen magic items yet i just theorised what i would be spending per character as for their role).

    Alot of things to take in and comment on in there so thanks again for any pointers.

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