Welcome to Librarium Online!
I'm a lizardman player who's going to be playing an empire gunline next week.
My opponent knows i'm going to be using a slann and so i was wondering what kind of things an empire army can do to counter a magic heavy army?
I played a bret army last week and my opponent took four scrolls and gave all of his knights some kind of magic resistance!:cry: Do the empire have any similar tricks up their sleeve?
I've seen my opponent play before and he always takes two hellblaster volley guns, two cannons and three units of handgunners. So if anyone could give me any tips on how to fight a gunline it would be much appreciated, esp as a lizardman player
Well you're in for serious trouble I must say.
Usually the basic magic defense for an Empire army that knows he's going to face a strong magical army is 2 level 1 wizard with either 4 dispel scrolls or 2 dispel scrolls and the rod of power (who give you the ability to store casting dice to be used in as dispel dice). This setup ususally nullify the magic phase of armies with 10-12 power dice. You will be able to cast some spells, but if you fail some of this casting then it will be easy for your opponent to counter what's left of your casting pool. Also I love to equip my Lord with Aldred's Casket to steal my opponents spells, I love the look on their face when I do so .
The only way you can counter that is by going with almost no magic and a lot of troops. Take a Saurus Oldblood instead of a Slaan mage and take a Skink Priest with him for some magic defense. That way you can put a lot more points in core troops.
The main problem you have with a gunline army is the fact that the handgunners shoot with Str 4 with -2 AS, that gives you no save at all. Every hit that wound will kill one of your model. Even Kroxigors and Stegadons will have to save on a 6+. That and the fact that he can hit you up to 30" in the first turn (because of the d6 he can add on his first shoot). Hellblasters are also really bad for you as they can wipe out whole units in one or two turns... if they don't blow up...
My advice for you is to use a lot of skinks as a meat shield, if you can get your main units into close combat then his line is doomed, he have nothing to actually fight back. You need at least 3 infantry blocks of around 20 models. Be ready to sacrifice those skinks and advance as fast as you can. Your strenght will be in your number, take as much Saurus Warriors as possible as handgunners are not match for them in close combat. You should also take some Kroxigors as they will cut through his line easily. Also, take fast attack units, if you can be on his warmachines on turn 2 you will greatly cut his efficiency, small terradons units of 3-4 models would be the best for that.
A stegadon is a good idea because he cause terror and chances are his highest ld will be 8, but you can be sure he will be targeted by cannon fire so either use him as a fire magnet by putting him on the front line either try to hide him behind cover save until the right time come.
Good luck even if deep inside I wish the mighty Empire will prevail
I personally never really use that much magic, probably because we don't have exactly the greatest magic. Having all 8 lores of magic is great, but not any really great magic can be harnessed such as "Warpath of Gork" with the Orcs or " Vaul's Unmaking" with the High Elves.
The most hardcore magic for the empire player would be a bunch of wizards who's role is to act as scroll caddies. Don't worry too much Stonehambey, you will dominate the magic phase, I'm that confident.
The guy you are playing is using two helblasters? Thats pure cheese, use some scouts to take them out and you should be fine. As Thyr said, you should use some skinks as a meat shield to protect your main CC troops, and then when you get into closecombat you will own those handgunners in CC.
Good luck Stoneyhambey.
Thanks for the help guys
I'm thinking of boycotting the slann totally and going for a cc orientated army. If the people at my gaming club see me playing the same army over and over again then it will be slightly easier for them to start teching up against me. So i think i might change things a little:shifty:
I'll probs be looking to take around 3 units of 20ish saurus warriors (i only have 56 models) and a lot of chameleon skinks (i love these guys neway) plus scouts to attempt to take out war machines. I'm thinking about an oldblood on a carnosaur and a steg as these will both attract missile fire, which could draw it away from my infantry blocks.
Obviously these are all just ideas, i'm pretty much expecting to lose neways as he's a much more experienced player than me.
Oh, and if you want to field a Skink Priest, keep him well guarded and out of sight. The enemy might field Hochland Long Rifles and a small wizard with only Toughness 2 and no armor (since he is a wizard) is a prime target
I'm afraid i suffered a minor loss at the hands of the empire.
It was all going well until he killed 16 saurus in one round of shooting, and then the comet landed at the beginning of my next turn
It was a good game though, although playing an empire gunline is not the most fun i've ever had
Did he actually take the 2 helblasters?? Thats super cheese, because a single helblaster have the power of around 24 handgunners.Originally Posted by stonehambey
Yup I agree totally, 2 Hellblasters are really cheesy, especially against a Lizardmen army with an AS 4+ and 5+ (meaning almost no save at all) and T3. No dice to roll to hit then a 3+ to wound and kill... No wonder you lost, one good turn of shooting and you're toast.Originally Posted by Amadis
It make me think of that time when I blasted 22 Saurus Warriors in one turn with my single Hellblaster... and that unit was 25 strong... He was just at the right range and I had the perfect LOS... That's why I always take only one of those, it is way too good to have 2 of them, it is also really unreliable as it blow up early in the game half the time for me.
Originally Posted by Amadis
Here's my discertation on why the Hellblaster cannon is NOT cheese and IS, in fact, quite overpriced.
First of all, the Hellblaster gun MUST fire 3 barrels each turn it fires. That's 3 chances to misfire! Just so you can realize how terrible that is, the mathematical probability of rolling a misfire on the Hellblaster is 42%! That's nearly HALF the time!
Of course, it only explodes a THIRD of the time you misfire, so basically, every time you fire the gun, you have a 14% chance of the gun just outright exploding. A great cannon only had a 3% chance of exploding, for comparative purposes.
Over the course of a 6 turn game (where the hellblaster fires EVERY turn), the chances of the Hellblaster surviving the battle is only 40%! Yeah, that's right guys. On AVERAGE, the Hellblaster will blow ITSELF up on the battlefield. So that's, what, 125 points you're pretty much HANDING your enemy?
The chances of the explosion can be offset by purchasing a Celestial Wizard who is dedicated to casting the reroll spell specifically for the purpose of rerolling misfires for your hellblaster, but you have to get the spell off for that to work, and that's a lot of extra points to spend just to halve your chances of a catastrophic failure.
The worst part is, you can't even buy an engineer to address this issue, for some crazy reason GW decided that the engineer's reroll affect won't work on the Hellblaster.
In short, the Hellblaster is an over-hyped piece of junk that no sane army commander would EVER field, since it's not likely to ever survive a battle.
Yes 3 barrels to fire, and three chances of misfiring... but 3 chances of scoring 30 hits. I'm not trying to be blunt or anything, but I sometimes look forward to misfiring... you see, because everytime a warmachine misfires its bad.. right? Well not in this case, if you misfire on the third barrel and roll a 6, you score 30 hits! And if one of the misfires turns out to be a dud and you still get to fire the rest of the barrels.
And the great thing about the helblaster is that you don't even have to roll for the BS! You recieve automatic hits. Its great because the empire troops don't even have good BS such as the Elves or Dwarves.
All of the hits are lethal even for the most heavly of armoured troops. At 125... that is super cheese at that price, considering that you could wipe a average unit of 200 points off the field. When I played the SoC campagin I put 4 units of 16 Chaos Warriors in a bottle neck, and slaughter all of them, and sent them fleeing... and my army had half the points as the enemy the helblaster never failed me in that battle.If you call the helblaster a piece of junk I agree... only because it is Von Meinkopt's macro-mainspring of multitude precipitation of pernicious lead.Originally Posted by Rameusb5
I guess I'm insane. Von Meinkopt probably was too when he evented this machine... and so was Leonardo when he evented the steam tank. But when I play and include one of those machines... my chances of winning go up drastically.