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i'm trying to decide on a new fantasy army i sold my wood elves (thus the money for the new army) and i'm bored with my gobbos (only so many times ya can twirl a ball and chain and stil find it funny) some of you may have noticed me going around renewing old ideas and asking questions
these 2 are some i never thouht of before and indeed never even thought i would consider empire but...
1)whitch hunters i love the fluff are there any rules
2)what units would a whitch hunter army include
3)is the empire the right army list to represent a whitch hunter army
4)has anyone done this before
5)any links to tacticas, advic or lists relevant to a fantasy whitch hunter army
and idea 2 kisleiv
1)do they have a book or is the white dwarf rules still the authority
2)are they viable on their own or do they only work if they are alied
3)what units would be best eg what characters etc
4)is it done in general i mean are their alot of pure kielevite army's out there
5) any links to tacticas, advice or lists relevant to the keisliv army
and 3 a combo of the 2?
"take my love, take my land, take me to where i cannot stand, i don't care i'm still free you can't take the sky from meee" ;- firefly
"i'm gonna grant you your greatest wish i'm gonna show you a world without sin" ;- serentiy
"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how i soar" ;- serenity
Empire could (and i say this tenuously) make a witch hunter army of sorts.
In there armies book (and the chaos one) it makes a number of mentions to unsavoury individuals swayed by the chaos powers being pursued from the empire by the witch hunting element of the empire army.
I would probably consider a battle priest as the leader of the army (i cant remember the actual name of the warrior-monk-dude),
Back him up with lots of militia (which would represent the actual reaction accused witches of the past got from the public) as well as some nicely ranked swordsmen and knights.
If your after a fluff-rich army you should try staying clear of the more exotic elements of the empire army, i.e. cannons, griffons, greatswords etc.
Just create a suitable name for your army like the witch hunters legion or some such thing, and then come up with a suitable colour scheme,
you could definatly use the kislev army list on its own, but its lacking one important aspect: lords and magic. if you wanted a kislev force i would suggest using the DOW army list with lots of kislev allies. a white dwarf a while back actually delt with this problem, if i find the issue i'll let you know.
2,500 points Empire
1,300 points Dwarves
500 points Cygnar
A Witch Hunter Army would not be very hard to build using the Empire list.
You would be after the crusading rabble accompanied by Pious templars..??? Well thats what i would do any way. To achieve this you would first need your general...
Any of the choices would work with the appropriate fluff, you pay for the stat line not the name so you could go for an elector count but use him as Witch Hunter General with a requisition mandate from the Emperor. A Templar Grand Master if Knights are your thing, of a Wizard Lord for the have to be a witch to hunt a witch approach.
Heroes would be an easy choice, Warrior Priests to lead the masses.....WP's and Free Company can be quite an effective mix. A rough old Captain as a BSB, i would not normally take him but a rabble army needs a focal point IMO, and Battle Wizards can fit with the same rationale as the Wizard Lord.
Your troop choices could be anything in the Empire List, with some leaning towards particular troop choices. Considering that most of the Empire is very superstitious and highly prone to lynch mobs i would include lots of free company militia, model them as peasants, zealots etc. Use archers for missile support, once again going for the peasant theme. I would minimizes the 'State Troop' contingent, not saying not to include it but keep it as a small force of your core army. I would imagine that most counts and nobles would be hard pressed to give over too many of the troopers but there is always small grants for the 'Faith'
Knights would most definiteantly be with you, Templar Orders....hmmmmm
Special troops such as Pistoleers could be included but not in significant number, also artillery would be a big no-no, some yes but keep it small and make it look old and crap, once again going for the donation theme... have it venerated but some lay person as they load it... 'Sigmar guide this shell high and true so we may smite our enemies with much rejoicing..' And you could do the unit of greatswords, model them as templars on foot with Hammers....sweet...
Rare troops...... Flagellents, need i say more. These fruit loops should be right up there.
I have seen armies representing such a force before, they work well on the offense. They have all the limitations of an Empire army while sacrificing some of it's benefits, such as artillery and low numbers of state troops (thus most units will not have detachments) But it is manageable.
And it looks very cool... i will try and find some links to a few and post them later.
Hope that helps
There was a proper Kislev army list produced, but it only had 2 Special Chars that could fill up lord choices (Tsarina the Ice Queen, and some dude named Boris on a giant bear).
They had Ice magic, but only the Ice queen could use it, although i don't think people would mind if you painted up an empire battle wizard in blues and whites and used him as an ice wizard.
The only Witch Hunter thing that comes to mind is the rules for Wilhem and Johan? the witch hunter and warrior priest i read about in the 2002 annual.
Jesus saves!!! Everyone else loses a wound.
Here are a couple of links to a witch hunter army that attended the Chicago GT, winning players choice award.
A Witch Hunters Army in Warhammer is well represented by an Empire Army. It's not the army I would choose to use - the troops are very unreliable - but it is certainly feasible. In order to be logical, I've listed the choices available, and commented on each:
Elector Count: Needs to be supported by background. A good choice for a senior witch hunter. Witch Hunters are not technically Priests (UK WD 304). This makes Electors with background a good choice.
Wizard Lord: Possible, but also needs to be supported. Some Witch Hunters groups would denounce all magic. However, the Colleges of Magic are widely accepted, so inclusion of spell-casters is possible. I wouldn't choose a Wizard lord as an appropriate Witch Hunters general though.
Grand Master: Highly Unlikely: See entry on Knights
Captain: As for Elector Count, but a less senior witch hunter. A Battle Standard Bearer is a tactical necessity - as Origin rightly states - to keep the army together.
Warrior Priests: A very good choice indeed in terms of background. Use these to lead infantry units and give support.
Master Engineers: NO! This would not be supportable in terms of background: artillery has little place in a Witch hunters army, and a Master Engineer would be too much: Witch Hunters would not have Engineers available to them.
Wizards: As for Wizard Lords, really. Don't have too many Wizards, though!
State Infantry: Can be justified in small amounts - given by a pious Elector Count to a Witch Hunter's Army, perhaps to eradicate the threat of Witches from his State.
Militia: Your best choice for core troops. Free Companies should provide the mainstay of your army. They're actually quite useful: two attacks for as little as 5 points. Archers should be used in support. Crossbowmen are legitimate, but much, much less likely. These represent the pitchfork waving rabble of the Witch Hunter's army. Again, this is much as origin suggested.
Knights: I would find it very hard pressed to justify the use of Knights, and even then only in small amounts. Nevertheless, it is possible - just - to include them. Your best choice for background are the lesser-known orders: The Knights of Morr - specialists against necromancy and Undead. Another option is the Knights of the Hammer (UK WD304 again). Alternatively, invent your own Order. This isn't a problem as it has no effect on the game: it's only a name. That said, UK WD 310 gives rules for specific Orders, and enables you to devise your own. Oppoent's permission needed, unfortunately!
Greatswords: NO! Impossible to justify using existing background. Why would an Elector Count commit his personal guard to join an army of pitchfork-wielding peasants???
Pistoliers: Similar problems here. It is possible but unlikely that the sons of noblemen would join the peasants. It could happen though - they're not known to be entirely rational. Multiple units would be highly unlikely.
Cannon and Mortars: I agree with origin here on artillery: use 1 piece at most - more likely a mortar than a cannon. it should be old and retired from general use, or perhaps donated by a very pious general!!!
Helblaster: No, it just wouldn't happen. They're too rare to be given to crazy zealots.
Steam Tank: NO NO NO!!! This is the most unlikely choice in the whole list. It would simply never happen.
Dogs of War:This depends very much on the choice. Look for rabble rather than well trained or rare troops. A single Dogs of War cannon could replace an Empire Great cannon. It's tactically useless other than saving 15 points, but it would work for background.
Flagellants: An absolute must in a Witch Hunter Army. Tactically useful - they're unbreakable and reasonably durable. They hit hard too. Why take a Withch Hunter army, made up of rabble, and leave out the unit designed to fit this role? Never take to the field without a good unit of Flagellants.
As an alternative to this guide, the Appendix of the Empire Army book can be used. This gives a list for a Sigmarite Army, much as above. It has some changes which require consent, though, such as Flagellants as a Core Choice.
WD 304 (UK) contains a very useful article on the Cult of Sigmar, including notes on Witch Hunters. Read this! I have referred to it in passing throughout my comments.
Magic Items: keep them small, and not very valuable. Common Magic Items would be a good choice. A Runefang would be unrealistic.
Tactically, this gives an army made up mostly of peasant militia, with a few regular troops in support. This gives a weak army in terms of leadership. Don't use detachments: it's too ordered and well trained.
Hope I've been of use. Good luck!