Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
One of my friends plays a constant style of Chaos: he takes one or two units of chaos warriors and backs them up with 4 or 5 chosen chaos knights with an Archaon-like figure (we have yet to go to point-values where he can afford Archaon himself). My Empire force is relatively small compared to some of my friends, with a total force of 20 halberdiers, 20 swordsmen, 10 free companies, 10 crossbowmen, 5 archers/hunstmen, 12 knights, a foot wizard, a horse wizard, an elector count, 2 great cannons, a mortar, and 2 master engineers. I plan to get a detachment set next. My problem is this, no matter how many different strategies I try, his knights always manage to break my force. I would appreciate any strategy advice from more experienced Empire generals.
Something to note is that a Hellblaster Volley Gun would realy ruin your opponents day. I avoid them like a plague when I play against the Empire.
Use your numbers advantage. Negating ranks against Chaos can really play havoc on their smaller units.
Originally Posted by VoltaireOriginally Posted by Voltaire
Well, since Chaos ain't too heavy in the ranged weapons department (apart from magic) I'd say you could go for a Griffon mount for your Elector Count. (If you can afford the model)
And since I already mentioned an Elector Count, equip one of your state troops with the griffin banner (and beef their numbers up to at least 24+). Even chosen Cavalry is likely to only tie against them (unless Khorne but in that case you should use their frenzy to direct them to your liking )
And units-wise: a bunch of Pistoliers is always good (as light cavalry usually is) as would be in this case some Flagellants (the latter ones can be beefed up in numbers by properly painted Free Company)
The hellblaster would do the trick.
Or go with Pistolers, and the unit champ gets the repeater pistol. Also get a unit of handgunners. Then run behind the knights and shoot and marchblock them to pieces. Then let your infantry with detachments hit and autoflank his infantry, and you'll probably break them, especially with a few hits on the way in. But I hear they are changing the pistol rules in the new book, so you should maybe hold off until it comes out.
Hey, I agree with everyones point on taking a hellblaster there ideal at destorying whole units in one shot as long as it doesnt explode(touch wood).
Also i agree with kooshlord you lack the shooting power of the empire handgunners and crossbowmen they kill warriors useally with ease when i fight them.
I take 2 units of 10 handgunners also i would take flagglants against chaos its funny to see your oppenet underesitmate a charging unit of them . They are a good tarpit unit to use on there deamons and charaters since you dont have to worry about them running away.
Pistoilers work ok but i useally dont bother with them and relay on taking more troops and detachments to beat them.
I would use a cheap hero on pegasus to march block him, this will get you more turns of shooting to take out his knights, warriors or whatever, also give him a pistol if you want to take a pot shot every turn at him.
Second if he does use Khorne, use a cheap fast unit to lure his knights out to expose his flank and then run a cannon ball down it, if you get a good guess and bounce you can take out his whole unit of knights in a single turn.
The Soon to be new rules will state that having a B.S.B. will add an additional +1 to CR. If you really wanna make chaos weep, then buy a B.S.B with the War Banner. Put him in a unit of halberds(swordsmen wont do anything since their 1 higher WS is still lower or equal then all chaos troops/daemons and spearmen wont do anything either.) Halberds have the best chance since they will now need 4's to wound against warriors/knights, and will now concer to a minus 1 penalty to his save. Bout 25 halberds will do. Give the unit the griffon standard. In Addition, give your unit a detachment of 10 more halberds to counter charge:
WAR BANNER: +1
B.S.B. IN UNIT(WHEN NEW RULES COME): +1
OUTNUMBERING(DEFINATELY AGAINST CHAOS): +1
FLANK(WITH YOUR DETACHMENTS): +1
6 RANKS(GRIFFON STANDARD): +6
Even with the amount of wounds they do, chances are you will still win. Dont forget the B.S.B's attacks which should do about one wound. If you ever put your elector on the griffon, give him the runefang. Chaos warriors and knights have amazing armour saves. I.E. Chosen Chaos Warriors with Shields have a +3 Save, and +2 in Close Combat(They are only ground troops!)
All your units should have some detachments to counter charge chaos warriors cause I can garuntee that you are not going to out-kill chaos, at least not with the empire. The only way you can destroy them is with CR(Combat Resolution).
In fact, you should look up the special character Ludwig Shc(something) He has a banner and a sword of justice(counting as the armies B.S.B.) and the banner adds +1 CR to any unit in 12". That could be devestating to all your units with a good counter charge. In fact...I think that I'm going to run that against someone who plays all orcs in a campaign I'm in.
Shooting wise, take a hallblaster, 3 cannons, and maybe 2 units of handgunners and a unit of crossbowmen. I really wouldnt run a mortor, because everything is strength 4 or higher(unless he runs marauders or beast herds, which in that case:run a mortor). In the new rules, the pistoliers will not get the fussilade bonus unfortuneately.
Flaggelants would be an excellent choice. They can never RUN! Only get killed outright.
And chaos is all about killing in close combat, mostly. You should also run a preist in a unit of greatswords. Give the priest a great weapon(he's striking last anyways due to initiative so you might as well give him +2 S)
I play The Empire and Beasts/Hordes(Tzeentch)...so you can definately trust me.
This Is What I run against Chaos. Since they have no type of cannons(with the exception of the hellcannon) or bolt throwers, I run 3 units of knights. One unit has 10 in them(which are inner circle), giving it the warbanner, in which i put my templar grandmaster with the laurels of victory(each wound he does is doubled in CR) and the sword of might(needing 3's to wound now, not 4's) In another unit i put that special character in with the cool ass banner. away from my knights is a wizard level1 with 2 scrolls. In addition I give my knights the white dwarf rules where they always outnumber. The other two units of knights have 5 in each(outnumber?...then why buy more?)
Unit / Character
+2 pts per models/ Free
Effect: Unit Always outnumbers.
In order to give the knights this, you can only have the same order of knights(so you can;t have the white wolf knights) and all knights must have the same advantage and/or disadvantage. If you want to know more about these rules...e-mail me at KingKobra221@yahoo.com
Ludwig 'Emperor's Standard'(if within 12"):+1
Wounds from Tempalr(normally 1):+2
wounds from knights(normally 2-3):+3
TOTAL:+9...I know, your speachless(this is only if you get the charge)
Last edited by Kingkobra7221; August 11th, 2006 at 02:10.
You just have to hope he doesn't kill your BSB (which he can do pretty easily
if he's charging you). Even then you might beat him. But that's a pretty
expensive unit, and if he flanks you, you'll lose all your rank bonus.
Still, it's about the only way Empire can stand up to Chaos Knights in a melee
for more than a round (unless you take a huge unit of Flagellants).
I'd try to avoid getting into melee if at all possible (flying hero is useful as
mentioned above) and blast him with your ordinance for as long as possible.
Pistoliers are great - and you can always flee if they get charged by something
Alternatively, get some Ogre mercenaries. If they stay near the general their
low (ish) Ld shouldn't be a problem, they've got a long charge rabge, and
(suitable armed) they can beat even a chaos knight into little pieces.
I've played against chaos before, and sometime ogres bulls arent the best choice. Your best bet is to go with iron guts, or what i'd field, 5 lead belchers, because their firepower can bring some nasty chaos scum to their place, in the ground.
Lead belchers for sure!!
And deployment is a crucial factor. If possible deploy AROUND a hill with artillery on top (1-2 cannons + 1-2 Hellblasters).
If not, then plan your deployment such that to get to your troops (which a combat orientated chaos army must) he also has to come into close range of your artillery and massed amounts of handgunners. Armour piercing is devastating to heavily armoured chaos warriors who, due to their points, only have smaller unit sizes.
Shoot the crap out of him and finish him off with the large units of swordsmen/spearmen and knightly orders wich will either break him or beat him due to ranks, outnumbering etc.
Empire is perhaps the most diverse army in warhammer and it really pays to use its diversity to your advantage with a number of different units supporting each other.
Also, you could have smaller units of handgunners and halberdiers or greatswords as detachments as when your parent unit is charged they get to have a stand and shoot reaction and a counter charge. These high strength cc attacks and armour piercing shots count towards your already formidable combat resolution (ranks, banner, outnumber etc) easy!!