Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
okey dokey, as stated in the title im new to fantasy and im liking empire.
i was gonna do a desert based empire army.
2250 pts is what my shop plays
i will face
others to but those are the abundance.
so help me form a list. im liking the detachment option but im not sure what i want to do with the list. usually in 40k i do a strictly shooting or strictly cc army, not a mix. i think i should do a mix for empire though.
some lord i dont really care what
1-3 spearmen with ranged detachements
1-3 swordmen with ranged detachements
and some knights maybe
thats what i think would be neat. but ass i said ive never played fantasy before so idk if this will work. help me out
Artillery is fine, though you might look at some of the rare choice artillery. Take swordsmen over spearmen they are better in my opinion. Halbidiers are the best detachments aswell as handgunners. Outriders and pistoliers are a must as is a unit of Flaggelants. The Arch Lector has become the default Lord choice now so stick with him, give him a Battle Wizard and 2 Priests and you will be laughing. Knights are good but unless you want a big unit of them I prefer Fast Cavelry.
Empire list design is a pretty in-depth topic, with a lot of information for each unit, etc.
1) Fantasy Battle is all about Movement, Manovering and Morale. You have to pay attention to covering the flank and rear of your units and battleline as a whole.
2) Shooting is not as effective in Fantasy as 40k
3) Your basic line trooper has mediocre leadership and is reliant on the higher leadership of the General and/or a Battle Standard Bearer.
4) Empire is a jack of all trades, master of none. You can't out-Knight the Bretonnians, You can't out-shoot Wood Elves, etc.
As you're brand new to both Fantasy and Empire I would suggest you start out small, like you would in a 40k escalation league.
Read through the Empire book and write out a 500-1000 point list.
25-man Infantry block
1 or 2 10-man detachments (10 melee, 10 shooty)
The Lord you choose will really set the tone for the rest of your army.
General of the Empire - Cheap Lord choice with good leadership to place in the center of your primarily infantry battle line.
Templar Grand Master - Powerful combat Lord choice intended to lead a predominately cavalry force.
Wizard Lord - Usually combined with all Wizard Heros and a gunline army (handgunners, pistoliers, outriders, cannons, helblaster etc.). Can be unfun to both play and be played. If your shooting and magic don't work out you get destroyed. Not a lot of middle ground.
Arch Lector - a new Lord choice in the new Empire book (NE. Provides Leadership 9, provides 2 extra dispel dice to army, Priestly Prayers and can be mounted on the War Altar with some great capabilities.
As willadams33 said, there is a specific build to get the most out of the AL/WA combo. The combo I have seen is a little different than what willadams33 said.
Arch Lector (Van Horstmann's Speculum, Armor of Meteoric Iron, Sword of Might [some use Sword of Sigismund] on War Altar
Warrior Priest (I like Rod of Command or Icon of Magnus), barded warhorse, joins Knights to give them Hatred
Battle Wizard (Level 2, Lore of Light, Doomfire Ring), barded warhorse
Battle Wizard (Level 2, Lore of Fire, 2 dispel scrolls), barded warhorse
This combination gives you 7 dispel dice and 6 casting dice each turn + 4 Bound spells and the Free spell provided by the War Altar. This combination can usually overwhelm your opponent and forces him to pick and choose what to try to stop. I usually start off with all my regular magic and get off all possible magic missiles to put the hurt on the enemy. Then the prayers can get off much easier.
I'm in favor of mostly Infantry with a sprinkle of Knights as support. I also haven't been using my handgunners for several weeks now.
Since a Warrior Priest now lets you take a Flagellant warband as Core, I'm beginning to experiment more with Flagellants in my AL/WA list (see combo above). They can be rock solid with a BSB but I've never had good success with Greatswords. Certainly, others have had better experience.
If 1 Great Cannon is good, 2 is better. Mortars can be good against certain armies, not so much against the opponents you listed (i.e. dwarfs and Chaos Warrior armies).
I have never used a Steam Tank (old or new rules) so I can't help you there. I've had good success with my Helblaster whereas others don't think it worth the points vs. its risk.
So as I said at the top, I'd suggest writing up a list in 500 point chunks or there abouts. This will help you focus on what purpose each unit will serve. Think of the concept of Combined Arms. Groups of 2 or 3 units will form a Battalion which will support each other.
For example 25 Swordsmen with 10 Free Company might be the main combat unit which will go forth and make contact with an enemy unit. With proper use of the detachment you should be able to draw or win the first round of combat. The following turn the supporting Knight unit will hit the exposed flank of the enemy unit and hopefully run them down when they break. In these terms, plan for your army to have 1, 2 or 3 of these Battalions depending on the size of the list with additional specialized units helping out where they can to support the Battalions.
Infantry: 25 models minimum. 20 is too small in games over 1000 points. You need your rank bonus intact when you get to combat so you need the extra models to compensate for those lost to shooting and magic. 30 if you your opponents have lots of shooting and/or lots of offensive magic.
Knights: 5 or 6 models with Musician. This will give you the frontage to maximize against most enemies and +1 bonus to Rally if you Flee. Cavalry models in a second rank are just really expensive "wounds" and generally aren't worth it. If you want to commit a unit or two to being "heavy" cavalry then a 10-model unit can work or 9 with a mounted Character. With this option you go for the Gold and make them Inner Circle, full command, War Banner etc. If you can get the enemy battle line stuck in with your Infantry and get this monster Cavalry unit to hit their army's flank... mmmm. Good things can happen. Then again, you opponent would have to be pretty daft to let you do this.
Pistoliers/Outriders: 5 or 6 models with Musician. I'm tempted to try a 10-man Outrider unit just see what its like to roll 30 dice against a single target. Advantage: the larger unit size will absorb casualties better, Disadvantage: can't split fire as if you had two 5-man units.
PS: While you'll get good advice here on LO, there is a website dedicated to the Empire: www.warhammer-empire.com. Things are in transition at the moment but W-E has a wealth of information on unit tactics, army list design and matchups against other races being updated for 7th edition and the NEB.
[COLOR=DarkRedI got my tournament t-shirts at mathhammer.net[/COLOR]