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I just won an Empire army box and I'm excited to start building my army.
I've decided I want a missile heavy army with knights and flagellants forming my center and flanks.
I come from wood elves so this tactic shouldn't be too surprising. I'm excited to play an army that is actually good at long range combat. (Wood elves actually aren't...)
In most respects I think the crossbows are superior to handguns. The extra range means that the enemy can't stand outside of your firing range. High and wood elves love to see handguns standing across from them.
I have noticed however that the handgun champion can take special weapons. Is this worth taking handguns then? The hochland long rifle looks particularly good.
So the question then is, is it worth taking handgunners for the hochland?
The next question is pistolliers vs outriders. I think the pistolliers are better since the outriders are basically handgunners that are begging to be shot at.
Since the normal table is 4 feet long, by setting up troops at the edge of your deployment zone and hopefully taking the first turn (but this isn't necessary) you can be hitting with Handgunners on turn 1. You can't really outrange handguns, they can reach out and touch someone no matter where you are. The Armor Piercing is much more useful than the range bonus. Especially when you can slaughter heavy infantry (even Chaos Warriors) in wholesale quantities.
Pistoliers are pretty terrible now... Serious nerfing. However, a unit of 5 Outriders has the same firepower as a unit of 20 Handgunners, for the cost of 13. And because they're Fast Cav, you can keep them out of melee all day. The only things that can catch them in melee are other cavalry- which get shredded by your guns. You just need to watch out for ranged troops.
The Repeater Handgun upgrade for a Handgunner Champ isn't worth the price. The Hochland Long Rifle is good, but because of BS4 and crap S, you need 2-3 in the army to get much done. However, it can be given to an Outrider champ for only 5pts, and with his BS5, it hits often. With a few of them you can snipe characters and especially wizards with ease.
The pistol upgrade is a little interesting. Essentially, it is only useful in a ranged-heavy army- where you expect at least some ranged troops to get into melee. Why? Well, if you read the rulebook in the part for Stand & Shoot, you find that the unit fires as soon as all members of the unit are in range- thus, you don't fire until the enemy closes to 8", within your half range. This can be pretty useful.
Now, there's just one problem with your army description. Sorry to be blunt, but Knights + loads of ranged troops + any kind of magic or artillery whatsoever = cheese. My Nuln don't have Knights, only 2 artillery pieces, no magic at all save a scroll caddy, and I bought full command for every single Handgunner unit (Standard and Musician are useless, I did it for fluff) and I use Handgunners in a 5x2 or 10x2 formation (also useless, one rank is best) and yet people still cry cheese because I use 40 of the buggers.
Anyway, that's a basic series of answers. Feel free to ask more, or find a dedicated empire forum... Oh, I don't know, perhaps warhammer-empire.com will help you more.
If you think Mathammer doesn't work and dice cannot be predicted, there's a whole field of mathematics called probability that would like to disagree.
Thanks for the reply.Actually you must start from more than 24" away so you cannot fire at the beginning of the game.Since the normal table is 4 feet long, by setting up troops at the edge of your deployment zone and hopefully taking the first turn (but this isn't necessary) you can be hitting with Handgunners on turn 1.I'm not sure how pistoliers were before but they seem like standard fast cav. My only problem with them is that they rally on an 8.Pistoliers are pretty terrible now... Serious nerfing. However, a unit of 5 Outriders has the same firepower as a unit of 20 Handgunners, for the cost of 13. And because they're Fast Cav, you can keep them out of melee all day. The only things that can catch them in melee are other cavalry- which get shredded by your guns. You just need to watch out for ranged troops.
5 outriders get 3 shots each so thats 15. Give them a M, C and they cost the same as 16 handgunners but perform a bit better. The problem is that they are easier to kill than 16 handgunners. Unfortunately they can't benefit from the fast cav rules very well. If you move them or rally you cannot shoot.
I'd rather just take core missile troops than outriders.You're paying 42 pts for a Hochland on an Outrider or 33pts for a regular Handgunner. That isn't worth the extra pt of BS, esp. since the outrider is easier to kill or panic.However, it can be given to an Outrider champ for only 5pts, and with his BS5, it hits often.http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...on-cheese.htmlNow, there's just one problem with your army description. Sorry to be blunt, but Knights + loads of ranged troops + any kind of magic or artillery whatsoever = cheese.
I think I'm definately going to go with the crossbowmen. Anything with longbows loves to fight against handguns. Not every army has high armour but most have low armour troops.
Last edited by DotR; June 9th, 2007 at 03:33.
The Hochland rifle can be very useful at taking out wizards and champions. It is particularly useful if you use van horstmann's speculum.
I disagree and think pistoliers are great (I know they were better before) but the whole point of fast cav is that they are manueverable. The Outriders have to sit still a turn in order to shoot. This means a good opponent will keep them from shooting ever or you will only shoot once with them. The Pistoliers can shoot every turn and get close and dance around the enemy the entire game. They can shoot 360 degrees and are sweet (unit of 5 is around 100 pts)
Playing these guys as high elves may be a mistake ~ but you'll figure this out. The empire has the best guns in the game, but need some large blocks of men to win a game. (they are not elves in their stats, but have a little better armor for the knights anyway) They don't move very fast, but have great cannons and the Rocket and huge blocks of men (swordsmen usually)