VW VCL: Group 1 Match 2: Avatar of Khaine vs Kroxigor01 - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Now 17% more helpful gingerninja's Avatar
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    VCL: Group 1 Match 2: Avatar of Khaine vs Kroxigor01

    Map: All along the Watchtower
    Top Deployment: Kroxigor
    First Turn: Avatar of Khaine

    Avatars List and Tactics:

    high liche priest
    neferreta's plaques of mighty incantations
    cloak of the dunes
    golden ankra

    liche priest
    staff of ravening
    skeletal steed

    liche priest
    staff of sorcery
    skeletal steed
    casket of souls

    tomb prince
    collar of shapesh
    brooch of the great desert
    great weapon
    light armour

    20 skeleton warriors, musician
    20 skeleton warriors, musician (liche bunker if needed)
    20 skeleton warriors, musician (liche bunker if needed)
    2 tomb swarms

    tomb scorpion
    tomb scorpion
    tomb scorpion

    20 Tomb guard
    full command
    banner of the undying legion (prince goes in here)

    Screaming skull catapult, skulls of the foe

    Generic notes:
    The first thing I’m taking note of is his lack of magical defences. With only a sorcerer and two dispel scrolls, there is little he can do to halt my spam of incantations. I suspest he’ll focus his scrolls on my casket for the first two turns, then all of his dispel dice, leaving the rest of magic free to cast. Which it will do. Doubling the shots from my skeles will be used primarily, as well as on the SSC. His chances of using a spell are about zero.

    His warmachines will meet my scarabs and tomb scorpions using ICFB, who will then move on to hitting the back of weak units/ combo charging stronger ones.

    His heroes with mounts will be noticeably isolated when they charge, so I’ll focus fire on them with my skeletal bowmen

    This is my deployment, some units will be oversized/undersized, but it’s about right. I’ll also have as much distance between missile units as possible to minimise earthshaker effects.


    One final note: his shooting, while potent, is very short ranged compared to mine. The goblins are also simply too easy to kill and break to bother me, especially with an upgraded screaming skull catapult

    Deployment image


    Red: bowmen
    Dark blue: casket of souls
    Middle blue: screaming skull catapult
    Light blue: tomb prince
    Yellow: liches (one on the left has the staff of ravening, and should be in the unit.)
    Yellow with orange centre: high preist,
    Purple: tomb guard unit of doom
    Brown: scorpion

    Anything not on here is using it came from below.

    First turn: scorpion advances, as do any skeleton units that don’t risk a charge by doing so, everything that can shoots. Magic: screaming skull shoots again, and if it’s a safe and a good idea, high liche preist will use urgency on scorpion. That’s more or less it. The screaming skull will shoot earth shakers, to try and stop them firing, as do any skeletons who’re in range. If I can’t I’ll shoot the goblins instead.

    From then on: If there’s a unit going towards the left flank, the skeletons there shoot at it with liche support and the staff of ravening. If not, the unit will advance and wheel, to shoot things in the side, but only if there’s nothing coming towards them or fast near them. My scorpion will try to fight off either of his heroes coming down the right flank, before rounding the tower and coming up the flank, taking out warmachines and the like.

    Against any units that threaten my main line, my tomb prince’s unit will attack using incantation of urgency, assuming the unit wouldn’t get pasted by missile fire.

    If my skeletons are about to enter combat, any attached liches will move to safety, and the unit will reform to a 5X4 block, to try and gain static combat resolution.

    But basically, the main line will paste anything it can with missile fire. I hope to either turn his heroes into pincushions or killing blow them. I suspect my shooting will suffer until the earthshaker cannons are destroyed, which will hopefully be round one, or when the first scorpions and swarms turn up. Either way, they won’t be around for long.


    If there's anything wrong with these tactics, let me know, and i'll fix it. Also, if anything's missing let me know

    Kroxigor01's list and tactics:

    Chaos Dwarf Lord – Great Taurus, Armour of the Furnace, Sword of Might, Shield
    418

    Chaos Dwarf Hero – Battle Standard Bearer, Banner of Slavery, Heavy Armour
    139

    Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer – 2 Dispel Scrolls
    115

    Hobgoblin Hero – Great Weapon, Wolf, Armour of Gazrakh, Gauntlets of Bazhrakk the Cruel
    106

    Chaos Dwarf Warriors – 15 with Blunderbusses, Standard Bearer
    190

    Chaos Dwarf Warriors – 15 with Blunderbusses, Standard Bearer
    190

    Chaos Dwarf Warriors – 15 with Blunderbusses, Standard Bearer
    190

    Hobgoblins – 10, bows
    Hobgoblins – 10, bows
    Hobgoblins – 10, bows
    Hobgoblins – 10, bows
    Hobgoblins – 10, bows

    Hobgoblins - 24
    Hobgoblins - 24
    Hobgoblins - 24
    Hobgoblins - 24

    8 Hobgoblin Bolt Throwers
    2 Earthshakers

    2250 points total

    This is my deployment.
    If you want to resend this as a link Kroxigor, as it won't open for me - ninja out
    Wait I just realise I forgot the Heirophant Hunting Hobgoblin Hero (what an alliteration). He will be in one of those archer screens before charging out to hide in those rocks and waiting to pounce on any priests (particularly the high priest and casket).

    The Great Taurus will also fly in the cover of those rocks and threaten any priests within 20" of them (even ones that are in units) . First priority is the casket, if it dies early its pretty much game over (likewise, if it gets to cast on turn 4 [I will let the cast on turn one go as the 4 units in LoS have LD10, scrolls will be used in turns 2 and 3] it will proabably kill all my hobgoblins).

    I can't stop his magic but I can stop him moving and shooting effectively with earthshakers. They will shoot at clumps of troops that are leading the shamble towards my line, one will also try and get a shot near the SSC to make it fire only half the time.

    Units are ingeniously (if I may say so myself) placed around the earthshakers to stop 'it came from below's getting them.

    In my first turn my hobgoblin archers will reform to give LoS to the artillery who will let rip. The archer unit behind the building will move into it first turn (assuming we are using standard building rules from the BR and will shoot out of it.

    Damn, I also forgot to put two of my bolt throwers on that diagram. They will go, er... just to the left of the Great Taurus.

    Unless TK units hunker around the Casket protecting it (which means they aren't moving towards me, win-win) then it can easily be charged by my great taurus who will make short work of it. The 'it came from below's will most likely take out 2-3 throwers (worth 30pts a pop ) before being flattened by infantry. 1-2 of the tunnerlers will scatter into infantry units and be slowly killed by static res and flanks.

    Once his infantry reach my line my blunderbussers will get their chance to shine (hitting half a unit with a S5 hit is pretty deadly). Then, with my superior number of combat units (4 undead units vs. 7 of mine, 12 if you count the archers who can negate ranks) I will easily flank and destroy his units which depend on having higher static res and outnumbering to autobreak. Fear tests from my hobgoblins should not be to much of a problem with the Banner of Slavery or Great Taurus (if he survives the hunt for priests) near.

    New LOChat functions now avaliable.
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  3. #2
    Son of LO ArtificiallyEnhanced's Avatar
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    321 (x8)

    I like the look of the chaos dwarf, plus it seems to have the edge in that its a predominantly shooty army that can slow an already slow ish army. Kroxigor01 for me.
    http://www.armyroster.com Check out my ToP WIP in the projects section!


  4. #3
    Member GrandDukeJerot's Avatar
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    Kroxigor1 wins here. It'll come down to a shooting match, and Chaos Dwarves have presented a more solid line.
    All Hail the Angry Fencing Coach!
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  5. #4
    It's what's for dinner daelrog's Avatar
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    Hard to call this one as neither army is that common, so I haven't gotten to see them in action.
    Tomb Kings are going to go wild with their magic, but what are they going to do against eight bolt throwers and the earthshakers. It seems as if Krox also has a solid defensive strategy to deal with the scorpions. Kroxigor
    I am heading off to the Peace Corps. It is bery likely I will not be back. Good luck to all of you endeavors.

  6. #5
    Member Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
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    Kroxigor01 for me, his shooting will obliterate the slow moving Tomb Kings

  7. #6
    gone fishin' avatar of khaine's Avatar
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    grrr... 4 votes to nil... how did this happen? I was actually pretty confident this match would be a massive win for me... shows what i know

    Quote Originally Posted by daelrog View Post
    It seems as if Krox also has a solid defensive strategy to deal with the scorpions. Kroxigor
    so because, according to what he says about his deployment without any evidence to back him up, you vote for him?


    I also don't get the problem with my army being slow, either... i'm shooting at him, people... perhaps i should have have made that point more explicit...

    Anyway, i do fire 120 bow shots and two screaming skull shots per turn, assuming the incantations don't get dispelled...

    one more thing: thanks to the incantations, even if i'm hit by an earthshaker, i can still fire in the magic phase.

    A quick comparison of shooting:
    me: 120 arrows, 2 screaming skull catapults
    him: 50 arrows, eight bolt throwers (all of which are weilded by squishy and innacurate goblins) and two earthshakers
    Last edited by avatar of khaine; December 16th, 2008 at 22:32.
    Avatar's Arena #3 let the games begin!
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  8. #7
    Sparta! Exarch Thomo's Avatar
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    Kroxigor has my vot on this one. A solid defensive line with that much firepower forces the TK's to react to him and advance. In the face of that many units shooting, not to mention the 8 bolt throwers and 2 Earthshakers, Krox should be able to cause a lot of destruction.
    Castling around the artillery to prevent ICFB also has the added benefit of forcing TK to close and attack, because if they lose the SSC (which is likely considering the 'lone hunter' and artillery), the only ranged response they have are bows - not enough to counter the numbers or armour of the CD.
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon

  9. #8
    Member Lore_Colten's Avatar
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    hehe avatar, you are up a creek with no paddle..

    altho whats everyone else says, the fact that avatars going to have a (basically) uninterupted magic phase is killer.. 2 catapult shots, free movement, free combat phases..magic missiles.. I've faced tombkings, and its definetly bad having only 3DD

    Avatar of Khaine
    Funnist warhammer moment ----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr2jlCyCJBI


  10. #9
    Sparta! Exarch Thomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by avatar of khaine View Post
    A quick comparison of shooting:
    me: 120 arrows, 2 screaming skull catapults
    him: 50 arrows, eight bolt throwers (all of which are weilded by squishy and innacurate goblins) and two earthshakers
    So your three big units of 20 Skeletons are going to be spread in one big line, with only one rank? Or do Tomb Kings get a special rule allowing them to ignore the normal shooting rules?
    Only the front rank can fire them unless they are on a hill. This means that even if you do spread them out to 10 in one rank, that that is only 30 models that can shoot - 60 with magic. Couple this with the fact that if you do do this your units are now wide open to get smashed in close combat by the mounted lord. Static combat res is now reduced to practically nothing (looking at your deployment map they are a single rank of 20 wide with no standard), easily beaten by a lord mounted on a monster.
    Regardless of whether the whole unit can fire or not, you only have 3 missile units (+2 SSC) to his 5, plus 3 units of CD's with Blunderbussess and 10 Artillery pieces. It's not necessarily that he has a higher number oh shots, but that he can put them to greater use by hitting more targets at once and not wasting shots.
    Last edited by Exarch Thomo; December 17th, 2008 at 02:09.
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon

  11. #10
    Banned ArchonFarseerGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch Thomo View Post
    So your three big units of 20 Skeletons are going to be spread in one big line, with only one rank? Or do Tomb Kings get a special rule allowing them to ignore the normal shooting rules?
    That was one of my bigger concerns for the list I ran in the last VW.

    From experience with gunlines (which, effectively, both of these lists may as well be), is that they need some kind of combat capability.

    These 120 shots will only come into play if all the magic is allowed to get through (which I don't think it will), and even then, shooting is overrated. The Earthshakers and BTs will be able to do enough damage to the archers (and even the SSC) before they get brought down (they'll get two-three shoot phases), meaning that their shooting can be rendered pretty ineffective soon enough.

    I think both sides will have to walk across the table, but then the mighty blunderbusses should do enough damage to the undead units to edge a victory to kroxigor.

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