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Map: Winter Wonderland
Top Deployment: Lore Colten
First Turn: Lore Colten
paul_Harkonen's List and Tactics:
Lord of Change 615
+ lvl 4, power vortex, dark magister, master of sorcery
Lore of Tzeentch: All Spells
Herald of Tz + power vortex 145
Lore of Tzeentch: 1 and 3
Herald of Tzeentch 215
+ BSB, Greater Icon of Sundering, Flames of Tzeentch
Lore of Tzeentch: 1 and 5
28 horrors with a standard bearer, and icon of sorcery 363
27 horrors with a standard bearer, and icon of sorcery 351
27 horrors with a standard bearer, and icon of sorcery 351
6 flamers 210
Totals: 2248 points, 18 PD to start and 10 DDAs usual, DEPLOYMENT!
Time to get tactical. A few things before I get into this: the first is that once again my opponent will not be casting any spells this game I have almost 2 dispel dice for every power die, so I have nothing to worry about.
Secondly, Lore has 3 units that I really have to worry about, the warriors (with the attached lord I assume) and the two dragon ogres. The Marauders will hurt, but in all of those combats I'll outnumber them (likely even after they deal wounds) so they'll be autobreaking.
Ok, everything over there is foot slogging at a fairly slow pace so I should have about a turn (possibly two for the humies) to light everything up. Turn 1's magic is pretty simple, my heralds toss a flickering fire each at one unit of warhounds. Lore either has to burn all 4 of his dispel dice here, or wave good bye to the hounds, either one is fine for my purposes. Then, each of the 3 horrors units throws a bolt of change at the warriors, (he'll obviously burn 3 of his scrolls to stop this, because if he doesn't that's a dead unit) Finally my lord uses a single die to cast boon. If Lore uses a scroll to stop this I get a free bolt of change at the warriors (likely taking out 6-7 of them) or I get to use the 7+ power dice I now have to burn his last scroll and still get off at least a flickering fire on an ogre unit, and perhaps a full blown bolt.
My flamers burn away the undamaged unit of hounds. Just as an in case, if Lore uses any of the scrolls he has to save one of the units of hounds from flickering fires, then the warriors eat at least one bolt of change.
Now, given my set up only one, maybe two, unit(s), likely of mauraders, will be in charge range. This means that on my turn I'll still have most of my power dice and casters remaining. On my second turn the lord zaps one of the ogres with a bolt of change, and one of the horror units takes out the other one with the same. Unengaged heralds use flickering fires on the warriors (what's left of them) and engaged horrors and heralds use gift of chaos to pump out the hurt against the mauraders. In the shooting phase the flamers mop up the warriors. By the end of my second turn anything in combat (and it will almost certainly be only mauraders) should be outnumbered by my big units of horrors (who get 4+ ward saves don't forget) and start running. After that it becomes a shooting gallery for my combined magic and flamers.
Lore Colten's List and Tactics:
Chaos Lord Garn, Master of the Twisted Mountain,
Crown of the Everlasting Conquest,
Mark of Tzeentch
Chaos Sorcerer, @
Chaos Sorcerer, #
20x Chaos Warriors, @
Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion,
Mark of Tzeentch,
24x Chaos Maraders
24x Chaos Maraders@
24x Chaos Maraders, #
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth,
Additional Hand Weapon,
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth,
~Dispel Dice = 4~
~Dispel Scrolls= 4~O.K , In this battle..I'm pretty sure he'll control the magic phase....But I can handle it, with a little something I like to call:
A Blood Run
Yes. I'm going to throw myself at my enemy, using the hounds to get the horrors into combat, to stop them casting spells. I'll use the maruaders the spear head, as they are the most likely to get into combat. The Manticore's duty will be to hunt down the Lord of change, and hopefully killing it before the magic gets the better of him. If I do it right, he shouldn't get to much magic to the face. The shaggoths will be placed opposite each character, and smash them to pieces( there actually not that good in combat)Lastly, the Chaos Warriors will lead the assault by getting placed dead center. There will be blood, and most of it mine, but if I can play it right, I can win this.
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Well, I'm not a fan of the CHARGE strategy, but in this case I'd have to agree with Lore Colten. However, paul seems to have expected this and clearly points out how he'll deal with it. Harkonen wins.
I am heading off to the Peace Corps. It is bery likely I will not be back. Good luck to all of you endeavors.
Once again, the first turn is going to be a nasty factor that comes back to bite paul in the buttOCKS (haha, seewhatididthere? Forrest Gump? Oh nvm). I think Lore's magic defence will be enough to save himself a bit of pain for a round. Once the Hounds are in combat, they'll buy the other footsloggers (not to mention the Shaggoths) enough time to engage properly.
WoC take the win, but it will be bloody.
I just think the warriors of chaos are too slow to halt the storm of magic that will rip them to pieces...
I just don't think it's that straight forward for the Daemons - Bolt and change a unit and it's dead just doesn't fly with me. It's still a little random.
Magic heavy armies are hard to pick in a votewar I reckon - you have to consider random hits, in this case random strength, failed casts and miscasts.
I'm giving it to WoC. I think the Manticore and Dragon Ogre Shaggoths are going to be hard to stop. The Manticore in the flanks is a problem on his own...
Ginger, we need to know what spells the WoC sorcerers have (the Daemons have 2 Glean Magics which will be quite deadly if the WoC have that "I kill your whole unit" spell).
If paul_Harkonen had 2 units of 5 furies (to march block and bait away units) he would be the clear winner. As it is it a frightfully close game. At the moment I will vote for the DoC due to the ability to spam Gift of Chaos when the WoC their line.
There is one thing I would like to note (or more precisely clarify for myself) about Lore's tactics. I was under the distinct impression that being in combat did not prevent my wizards (or my horrors) from casting spells, it merely changed their lines of sight. So while being in combat will prevent my horrors from using, say, bolt of change, it shouldn't prevent them from casting gift of chaos. If I'm mistaken (and it's entirely possible that I am) could someone correct me? and if I'm not, just felt I should toss that out there.
Either way this one will be one for me to hold on for dear life.
~2k of genestealery goodness
~1750points of terminator goodness
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain
more witty remarks to come.
So, Flickering Fire of Tzeentch, Bolt of Change and Tzeentch's Firestorm cannot be cast into combat but can be cast from combat unless your LoS is blocked. Gift of Chaos however, (D6 SD6 hits on all units within 12"and cast on a 9 for those without the DoC book) can be cast from and into combat.
- Cannot target a unit in close combat unless the spell says so
- Must have LoS to the target (which is normally blocked if your wizard is in combat) unless the spell is not a magic missile or does not mention needing LoS to the target
Krox, that's kinda right...
There's nothing about casting spells in combat, and having line of sight to the target - normal spell restrictions apply. If the spell says you need LOS, then you do. If not, then you dont. Nothing fancy here.
The other restriction you didn't mention is the fact Magic Missiles cannot be cast while engaged in combat at all. BRB pg 110. This is because they are deemed as more of a shooting attack, and so normal shooting rules apply for them, in this case, namely that you can't shoot while in combat.
So, Flickering Fire, Bolt of Change and Tzeench's Firestorm connat be cast while engaged in close combat, as they are all magic missiles.
I hope that answers all the questions here
based on the situation i think i'll have to side with the warriors of chaos here. speed as it were is on their side and the fraility of the deamons will really tell because of it, once contact is made after all no more nasty magic missiles.
spambot kill tally: 79
[16:19] <@Alzer> Arky's right though
[16:20] <@Kaiser-> I know he is.
[16:20] <@Kaiser-> He usually is.
[16:20] <@Kaiser-> Sometimes it's intentional.
[00:01] <+zubus> i love you, ya skirt wearin nothern monkey! ^_^