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This is a dawn attack played on this map:
Guardman is deploying first on the top (left) of the map.
The dice for first turn came up a 3, so guardman will be going 1st.
Lists and tactics:
Talisman of preservation, dispel scroll 310
Spells: dreaded 13th,cracks call,vermintide and plauge
Level 2, warplightning condenser 120
BSB, banner of the underempire, shield
shields, musician, standard
poision wind mortar 302
50 slaves 100
50 slaves 100
40 stormvermin (right)
warpfire thrower 415
5 gutter runners
5 gutter runners
hellpit abomination 235
plague claw catapult 100
warplightining cannon 90
centre: Seer, warlock, chieftain, clanrats, 50 slaves, , catapult, cannon
Left: 50 slaves, Hell pit
2 units of gutter runners deploy as scouts
Slaves clanrats all deploy 5 by 10, grey seer and BSB deploy canrats while the engineer goes in the stormvermin. Stormvermin deploy 10 by 4.
Hellpit and stormvermin guard the flanks veering in to engage those units held up by the salves. The slaves with run forward to receive charges and hold up units while the flank guards prepare to swing in. the artillery will deploy at the best vantage points possible and shoot at well pretty much everything.
The gutter runners will deploy behind the brewhouse and near the alter and then harry and kill what they can (warhounds)
The clanrats will hang back and will only engage for exposed flanks or if a weak target appears (eakened units warhounds )
The grey seer and engineer will pick off any visable target the engineer focusing on the large block and the grey seer trying to 13th the knights
David wc 09
Sorcerer Lord of Tzeentch, lvl 4, general, Chaos Steed, Blood of Tzeentch, Crown of Command, Talisman of Endurance
Exalted Hero of Tzeentch, BSB, Chaos Steed, Favour of the Gods, Charmed Shield, Collar of Khorne, Golden Sigil Sword
24 Warriors of Tzeentch, full command, rapturous standard
8 Chaos Knights of Tzeentch, full command, blasted standard
5 horsemen of slaanesh, musician, light armor, flails
Since the sorcerer rolled two 3's, he'll drop for flickering fire.
The sorcerer in the right zone will deploy within 3” the knights who will deploy to the right of their center zone. This way the wizard is staying by the wizard's tower to take advantage of knowing all the spells and can get a LOS! roll if needed, but since he has the crown of command, he’ll have to join them as soon as his turn comes around. I'll look for Flickering Fire on his abomb first but make sure to devote a lot of dice to Pandaemonium to stop his magic phase. If the time is right and I've got a big pool of casting dice then I’ll look for Gateway on a good target. Blood of Tzeentch lets me reroll one casting die per phase, unless it was a 1, so that should help bolster my spells, that and the +5 to cast. Pandaemonium will be a priority though. I’ll reserve 5 or 6 dice for it whenever possible, using blood of tzeentch to reroll 2’s and 3’s.
The buildings on the right will bottleneck his horde, so I my knights and warriors will move forward at reduced speed to position themselves for the killing.
The hellcannon will probably need to defend the left flank and move forward on turn 1. Turn 2 he hopefully can shoot or move again if need be. He’ll look to drop templates on the plagueclaw catapult; A str 10 hit will knock the wind out of it in a hurry. Hounds will move to force some march block tests, get in the way, but the more mobile horsemen will look to work around towards his cannon and get it taken care of.
Knights are already pretty buff against his shooting, so warshrine will boost the warriors. If his units tarry and not come into the middle, then I'll have to push the action. Knights will win combats; even if bogged down against steadfast, slaves and clanrats don't last long against their killing power. Warriors are pretty much the same but have the rapturous standard if they find themselves in a pinch. The abomb is the only real combat threat. If I can get to the BSB, I’ll look to chop him down at first opportunity.
So for me, it comes down to smart positioning, good use of terrain, smart use of magic, and winning combats.
This match is now open for voting.
Good luck guys.
please remember, votes in bold
Last edited by andre; October 14th, 2010 at 20:27.
One thing I definitely have to disagree with, is the idea that the Chaos Knights will quickly destroy a unit of 50 slaves. They simply don't have enough attacks. I think he would've been better off trying to misdirect the slaves, or finding the points to split the unit of 24 warriors into 2 units of 15-18, possibly by cutting down the knights.
The hellpit abomination will be a definite pain, but the stormvermin will probably never see combat. Taking the tower with the wizard is definitely a mistake though, as all the Skaven template attacks that hit the tower will automatically hit him. This is the reason that warmachines and very cheap units are usually the only things I see players garrison in buildings.
Spells will be potentially destructive both ways, but I think the Chaos Warriors simply have more to lose, since it's not the end of the world if one or more of the Skaven units are annihilated.
All in all, I have to give this one to Skaven. The tactics being what they are, I'm pretty sure he can hold off the knights and warriors long enough for the hellpit abomination to wreck havoc, and allow his spellcasters and shooty units to deal with the rest.
I have had a unit of 50 Slaves with musician flanked by a unit of 5 Khorne Knights before, and still tied them up for 2 or 3 full turns of combat. As long as they are within range of the BSB/General, Slaves will hold. With Plague Ignoring armor, and 13th being the bane of expensive infantry(see Chaos Warriors), I see this one going to Skaven.
Skaven (Sorry David!)
It's Adventure Time!
2010 'Ardboyz Champion
Since only completely destroyed units count, this is going to be close, with the skaven being unlikely to wipe out 24 tzeentch warriors, or 8 knights, while both of those units will drown in slave tarpits, maybe breaking through in the fifth or sixth turn, but only having earned a measly 100 points or so.
In the end, the most likely outcome imho, is the grey seer getting lucky with one of the rather nasty spells he has, that eat expensive models really fast, or the chaos army by turn 6 being reduced to knights, warriorblock and shrine, and the skaven winning by a very few measly points - either way, Skaven are likely to prevail.
The Silver Knights of Tor Adrac (He): 26/2/4
The Spears of Slaanesh (Woc): 7/2/5
Battlegroup Chalybso (GK): 7/3/3
Dreaded thirteenth only works on infantry.The grey seer and engineer will pick off any visable target the engineer focusing on the large block and the grey seer trying to 13th the knights
Grax, reread the wizard's placement. First, he's on a steed. Second, he's by the tower, not in it.
The skaven have very little that scares the Warriors here. With the exception of a few war machines and the abom. But a tooled out tzeentch wizard that has only flame spells to cast at him will negate that problem quickly.
The problem with the strategy of out flanking the warriors/knights is that if he doesn't actually kill them in combat he'll keep losing combat himself. Knights and warriors against skaven infantry is slaughter at its purest form. (I mean against any of his infantry units, the knights should be pumping out AT LEAST 10 wounds a phase, and a flank only brings more attacks for WoC) If the knights get stuck in with the slaves and get flanked by the stormvermin, the knights will still win combat every round. 2+/6+ is just too hard for him to get through.
Okay, the skaven have 1 thing that scares any WoC general and that's magic and I would probably hesitate in my decision about WoC winning if not for the fact that Pandemonium is such a priority for David.
WoC win this in a tough fight that leaves many dead rats on the ground.
Last edited by Pinkus; October 15th, 2010 at 15:18.
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Ah, I didn't notice that. Thanks for the heads up.
Regardless, I still believe Skaven have this one. Chaos Warriors vs Skaven is indeed slaughter in its purest form. Specifically, it's never-ending slaughter. By never-ending, I mean the first close combat Chaos enters, they're probably never going to leave.
The slaves are going to stop them cold, for at least 3-4 rounds, which will be enough time for the hellpit abomination to hit their flank.
Even if they survive, they'll be facing at least 1-2 rounds of shooting and magic before they reach close combat again, and by then the Skaven should be in a good position to finish them off.
Chaos Warriors. I reckon they'll be inflicting a lot of damage- it'll take them a while but they'll blend through the horde eventually and that's what counts. The Abomb is a problem but not enough to swing it, I reckon. WoC, but close.
(Bloody Abomb and deathclaw- I have toruble imaging how things will go when I've never seen these on the table).
No more NG spearmen, thanks! Now I need some pump-wagons!
I play against skaven and WoC lists like this regularly, I think if the skaven can get off 13th on the warriors they can win, but with the chaos casting pandemonium constantly, I think the grey seer will likely kill himself trying, and without him, the slaves will break. DavidWC09 wins.