Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
This is a battle for the pass on this map:
Esco thomson is deploying at the top.
Andre is praying so esco thomson gets to go first.
Lists and tactics:
High Sorceress (General, Level 4, Sacrificial Dagger, Pendant of Khaeleth, Black Dragon Egg) - 350
[Lore of Shadow] 6,2,2,1
Hag Queen (BSB, Cauldron of Blood) - 225
40 x Warriors (Full Command, Banner of the Eternal Flame) - 265
2 x 20 Repeater Crossbowmen (shields) - 440
2 x 5 Shades (additional hand weapon) - 170
2 x Cold One Chariot - 200
2 x War Hydra – 350
Will take Melkoth’s Mystifying Miasma, The Enfeebling Foe, The Withering & Okkam’s Mindrazor
Aim to fully abuse the building rules in this matchup! One unit of Crossbows will garrison the far left building, the other unit will deploy to the left of that building and on the line. Spear block with Sorceress will deploy in the building that is behind the Blessed Bulwark. Shades will deploy behind him, or as close to the Trebuchet’s as they can. With only 7 units he will be hard pressed to create nowhere for them to deploy, unless he spreads across most of his deployment zone. Cauldron will deploy in the center, and as far back to keep all three buildings within 24” and at least the Spear block within 12”. One Hydra and two chariots will deploy in the rear and to the flank of the far left building, to hide from initial charges, and setup for counter chargers after buildings are assaulted. Other Hydra will deploy behind the Spear block building.
First turn the other Crossbow unit will garrison the Grail Chapel. Magic first turn will be to toss The Withering at the Pegasus Knights which will at least drop them to average toughness if not lower; followed by a boosted Miasma and finally The Enfeebling Foe. Shooting first turn will have the two Shade units hoping to focus fire at one Trebuchet as they cannot charge. Both building crossbow units will have the 10 from each unit fire at the Pegasus Knights. I should come close to dropping off a Knight or more, depending on if I lower the toughness by 2 or more. With no charge bonuses, including for the lances, the Pegasus will either have to attempt an assault at bad odds, or stay out to be pelted. They could go for the Cauldron, but will face poor odds there as well. Subsequent turns will use the lather rinse and repeat method. I will hex the closest/dangerous unit, pelt away, stand and shoot on the reaction, and hope to hold in combat. Tossing Okkam’s Mindrazer & Cauldron blessings around for killing power. Counter charge units will snake around the buildings to flank where possible, or just charge in to play cleanup. Without getting charge bonuses most of the battle and dropping their stats to below average they will just struggle to do too much all game.
2k bretonnian host
Lord – 231
- Barded warhorse, virtue of heroism, armour of agilulf, heartwood lance
BSB paladin – 132
- Barded warhorse, virtue of duty, sword of might, questing vow
Damsel – 169
- Level 2, lore of life, chalice of malfluer, ruby goblet rolled: 4,2
12 knights of the realm – 337
- Full command, war banner
6 knights of the realm – 168
- Full command
12 questing kinghts – 360
- Full command
3 pegasus knights – XXX
6 grail knights – 258
- Full command
Hmm, this is quite tricky. Im going to struggle to to stop the elves garrisoning those buildings early. Getting them out will be quite difficult. None the less I think i can take them in other parts of the field.
The trebuchets obviously need to be proected from the shades at the start. They will deploy 1 behing the other, 8 inches in from my left flank, with 8 inches between eachother. This builds an large scout exclusion zone on that side, to the rear of my zone i'll deploy the pegasus knights facing to my right, to counter the shades that might deploy there. This also handily extends the zone. the exclusion zone is completed by my lances setting up in the centre.
The damsel will join the questing knights, the bsb the large unit of knights of the realm and the lord the smalle knights of the realm. It'll be fdifficult for me to shift the infantry if they go for the building, but this'll still leave one unit open. the large knight of the realm block will go for this.
The lord will target a hydra for heroic killing blow, hitting on 3s with re-rolls to wound should do the trick. The questing knights will try to take out the other one with their great weapons. The grail knights will try to deal with the cauldron and then the pesky chariots. The large unit will take out any infantry in the open, the combination of several ranks, +5 combat res on the charge and all my attacks should get rid of steadfast and break the DE infantry units.
The damsel will try to cast flesh to stone to counter the effects of wither and the like.
Would be interesting to play this one out.
Good luck esco thomson.
matches will run until early wednesday morning.
please remember to vote in bold.
Last edited by andre; October 20th, 2010 at 18:05.
i can see the elves gettign into those building and being almost if not flat out impossible to shift. the shades will just deploy just out side the exclusion zone still giving them plenty of charge range to get in on the 2nd turn and shoot them in the 1st. the RXB's garrioning the building will egt maximum shots out for minimum dmg taken due to the building rules and will even make the knights cry in Melee as they wont get their +1 Cr for charging their +2S for chargign and will even loose their mounts attacks.
My vote here goes to the Dark Elves
Terrain plays into DE hands, and Esco has tactics in place to make the best of it. Andre is countering scouts well, but that's not enough in this case.
Dark Elves should win this pretty handily.
Mmm... an interesting one indeed. Esco thomson countered the bretonnian trebuchets effecively by deploying in buildings. Andre countered the scouts.
It seems that the dark elves are going to hex the bretonnians, and that the bretonnians will counterbuff them. It should be relatively even but with an advantage to the dark elves.
The thing that makes the difference to me is 40 armourpiercing crossbowshots a turn. Because they are armourpiercing they will lower the bret save to 3+, which is the danger zone for knights. The questing knights will have their hands full with a hydra because they strike later, so will be ravaged by str 5 hits, and the problem they will face is their ( pretty low for knights ) 3+ save is going down to 5+. They will have their 5+ ward, but I can really see the hydra killing off half the unit with 7 str5 hatred attacks and 2D6 from the breathweapon. The other hydra should go down easily by the killing blow. I think the bretonnians can manage to clean up most things outside ( although with some losses from the continues xbow fire ) but they will have a lot of trouble with taking down the buildings, especially the 40 in the building.
I think the bretonnians have a chance but will lose through attrition against the unending number of armourpiercing arrows thinning their ranks. They can take out at least all the knights of the realm when using their magical advantage, and then the ravaged questing knights after they ( if they're very lucky, regeneration will bite them in the behind. I recently fought a hydra with 1 wound left and 15 miners just could not kill the ruddy thing ) killed a hydra.
It would be closer than anyone thinks, but because those 40 warriors would be hard to shift and the arrows would take their toll ( without the armourpiercing they wouldn't matter that much ) , I think the dark elves will take it, by the edge of a knife. The trebuchets can't do much about the regenerating hydra's and building elves. Otherwise it would have been a completely different story.
I'm going to have to agree with the consensus, the dark elves win.
I have seen cavalry trying to take a building from crossbowmen before, if the knights try it they will take losses from stand and shoot and probably lose combat without their lances and amour save, even if they did win combat, the elves are unlikely to break, pushing the knights back just in time for more shooting.
I think the brets will eventually kill all units not in the buildings, but the hydras, chariots and constant shooting will leave them with not enough knights to even attempt a building assault, leaving the DE shooting to whittle them down till the spearmen feel like coming out to finish them off.
Unfortunately, this is where army book creep rears its ugly head. There is certainly nothing wrong with the tactics on either side. That said, with the terrain in his favor, I just can't see a way for the Brets to win this.
Of course, the trebuchets will do a LOT of damage to the elves garrisoning buildings, but point for point, I think the Brets are going to lose a lot more due to crossbow fire. With magic and shooting so heavily on their side, I have to give this one to the Dark Elves.
"Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
Dark elves take it 5-0.
Cheers for your votes.