DOW/ROR Best/Worse Buys Guide

[Hex]

DOW BEST UNITS
The DOW choices in general range from useful to extremely useful. Much of the straight DOW list is of good quality, but I'll only mention the types of units that stand out as excellent buys.

Please note, if you're not a DOW general, all DOW units count as Rare choices.

LIGHT CAVALRY
One of two of the best DOW units, this fast cavalry is a bargain at 11pts and will greatly boost most armies, especially those that can’t take light cavalry (for example Dwarfs, Lizardmen, Skaven etc). Light cavalry can have command, hand weapon and shield, spear and shield, bow and shield, bow and spear or all of these – though this is probably not worth the pts. Decide what you want to do with them then equip them with the appropriate equipment. A unit with spears can get extra strength, bows are expensive but you can cause a lot of grief to your enemy as you are fast cavalry and a shield is a must unless you are using a bow. If your opponent shoots them down quite early, this is often good because the rest of your force will be safe and they’re only cheap!

Uses: Envelop flanks, go after war machines, draw out charges, harassing the enemy
Rating: 9/10
How to represent them: Al Muktar’s Desert Dogs

DUELLISTS
Again these are excellent troops, an absolute must which are core skirmishers. They can take lots of upgrades like light cavalry and they get WS4 – all for a 5pts basement (though you should equip them with something)! Taking the minimal 8 with extra hand weapons is only 56pts. Taking duelists with pistols at 9 points will make them even more effective in the first round of combat and they may also stand and shoot. Armed this way and given a champion and musician, they outclass all other skirmishers in the game with the very notable exception of Wardancers.

Uses: Protect flanks of bigger units, take table corners, draw out enemy, protect war machines
Rating: 10/10
How to represent them: Vespero’s Vendetta or Empire Militia

PIKEMEN
Defending in four ranks, charging with three, a large unit of these (about 30 models with frontage of 7/ is an excellent if somewhat costly choice for a general interested in directing the fighting toward or away from a point on the battlefield. Generals who fear what pikes might do would simply rather not attack them, and so they stay away – but this can help you out to force the fight away from somewhere in particular. Though at 10/11pts (with +1 AS, worth it IMO) each model, they aren’t cheap and if charged by heavy-hitting units (Chaos Knights etc) they will quickly crumble away with their mediocre strength. Also, protect pike unit’s flanks since in that way their bonuses are lost (duelists are good for this). Musician and Standard are necessary, but a Champion is not worth it since you can have another pikeman at the same cost with the same extra attack and 1 more model.

Uses: Directing the fighting toward or away from a point on the battlefield, smashing weak enemy units
Rating: 8/10
How to represent them: Any of the ROR pikemen units, Leopards are my favorite way of doing this

NORSE MARAUDERS
At seven points each for WS4 frenzied troops, these are very, very, under priced for their potential effectiveness. However, remember that the attributes of frenzy cut both ways! Take them in small-sized groups of 10-16 models and protect them from missile fire if you have to (though it is sometimes good to be shot at, since they’ll never panic from shooting!). You can increase their save to 5+ by giving them shields for a slight, added measure of protection, though I wouldn’t recommend this. Of the weapon choices available – extra hand weapon will increase their attacks to three each, but only at S3, so go for the S5-enabling great weapon at 2 points. Great weapon and frenzy make Norse a nasty weapon, for 9pts each!
Uses: Drawing missile fire, close combat fighting
Rating: 9/10
How to represent them: Empire Flagellants, Beorg’s Bearmen

DOW OGRES
A great buy at 35 points each. Fear-causing, T4 troops with three wounds and three attacks each. Give them a great weapon (S6), take a champion upgrade (4 s6 attacks), a standard if you need it, and cheap light armour if you need to protect them – and let them lose on the enemy's flank – The End of enemy. Just don't take units that are too large! Because they are fire and magic magnets, using them in multiple smaller units will increase their chances of making it into combat.

Uses: Beating the enemy, making low LD troops run away
Rating: 8/10 if you can use them the right way
How to represent them: Golgfag’s Ogres

CANNON
It's the classical cannon – 48-inch guess range, S10, D3 wounds per wounding hit. For only 85 points - a best buy – almost any army that doesn't usually get cannon now does. For DOW generals, cannons in your rare slots can take out a lot… if they don't misfire .

Uses: Don’t say you don’t know
Rating: 8/10
How to represent them: Bronzino’s Galloper Gun

RoR BEST UNITS
There are not so many good ROR units but I’ll list the few…

GOLGFAG’S OGRES
Exactly like the Ogres above except with a leader with 6 S5 attacks, Skaff (5A) and the rest have 4 each. Not too expensive, and can beat most enemy units. Due to this, your enemy will probably be shooting them like hell so watch out. Though if you’d prefer vanilla Ogres with two hand weapons instead of the heroes, it could be a better choice. Though if you want the mega nasty unit, take this one.

Uses: Beating the enemy, making low LD troops run away
Rating: 8/10 if you can use them the right way

VOLAND’S VENATORS
While Heavy Cavalry are OK, these are 3pts more for a +1 strength increase. Voland is actually a good hero with 3 WS5 attacks. He can help an army with little mobility such as Dwarfs, though just watch out – these come very expensive. They have a high AS though so they should be able to handle themselves and cause your opponent a threat.

Uses: Beating infantry and staying alive with high AS
Rating: 8/10

BEORG’S BEARMEN
See Norse Marauders, with the following additions: Beorg is a frenzied lord-level character with a 4+ ward save, S5, T5, and 5 attacks, and then there's a standard bearer with 3 attacks and the rest of the unit with 2 attacks each – all with a 4+ save in combat – and only 8 points each. Norse Marauders could be a better choice, but I see exactly why you’d want these. Highly Recommended, just be careful – they cause a heck of a lot of pts.

Uses: Close combat winning once again
Rating: 9/10

DWARFS
Solid. Anyone who plays them loves them until they end up winning too many games. Will keep on fighting, high LD etc etc. Armed with Great Weapons they can cause an awful lot of damage and keep on fighting. Put a Paymaster in a big unit of Dwarfs and he’ll be safe. Watch out though for the low I and stumpy legs – not getting into combat is annoying. Crossbows are OK if you’re thinking about having to go into combat, otherwise human bowmen are better.

Uses: Tough troops for most uses
Rating: 8/10

WORST UNITS
Here are all of the units that I would not even think about including in my army. Here are the terrible buys and suggestions for better DOW troops that can be substituted for less cost. Here are the losers – no offence to people who already include these in their army.

MARKSMEN OF MIRAGLIANO
Many people use this unit and think that it does a lot of good, but you’ve got to remember that a unit of vanilla crossbowmen the same price almost makes double the kills. Shoot at an enemy infantry unit in heavy armour at long range with the Marksmen and see what happens. 9 of the Marksmen plus hero kill 2.2 troopers on average. 22 regular crossbowmen kill 4.2 enemies on average – basically twice as good. To match the effectiveness of the 22 regular DOW crossbows, your unit of Marksmen needs to be increased in size to 20 – for a total cost of 290 points. For that cost, I can now field 35 regular crossbows who, now killing about 6.2 troopers per turn, are again more effective than their higher-priced counterparts. If you want to spend almost 300 points to kill 4 troopers per turn, go ahead.

Why they’re no good: DOW crossbowmen do the job much much better
Rating: 2/10

HALFLING HOT POT
So many use this too, and I have to admit that I thought that it was good once. 50pts for a S3 mortar so that it doesn’t kill anyone. If you just averted your gaze slightly you’d see a 48-inch guess range, S10, D3 wounds per wounding hit DOW cannon for only 85 points. Though I can see why you’d take this little device.

Why they’re no good: Cannons are 35pts more and are many times as better
Rating: 3/10

LUMPIN CROOP’S FIGHTING COCKS
Why call them such a rude name? Why ever think about them in the first place? Lumpin Croop, his L9 and his shot at BS5 costs 40 points (big whoop). His halfling friends are now downgraded by one point in several important categories - BS4, S2, T2. Plus – they skirmish, not that bad, but they can't scout. DOW already has excellent skirmishers – our duelists – and with their downgraded stats, there's no reason to take them at 7pts. They may get a few turns of shooting but after that all the pts you spend on them will be lost in CC. And all of your food will be lost in the Halfling’s stomachs.

Why they’re no good: What can they do to make up for their pts? I know some of you will disagree.
Rating: 3/10

THE BIRDMEN
The Birdmen cost 25pts each which you can have 1 Venator Heavy Knight for cheaper. They can’t shoot and just wouldn’t win any combat. Not even against a Dwarf war machine crew. Light cavalry can do the same job, heavy cavalry for extra power. The models are cool but there’s nothing else I can think of you’d use them for :cry:.

Why they’re no good: What can they do to make up for their pts? I know some of you will disagree again.
Rating: 2/10

AL’S DESERT DOGS
The first thing that I have to say is that the Sheikh looks like an idiot. Really the unit is an idiot idea: The Desert Dogs concept relies on the hope that a unit of fast cavalry with two heroes in it will be ignored and may then be free to wreak havoc in the enemy rear. It's not a bad idea, but normal fast cavalry does the same pts for much cheaper. At least you can use the models for, apart from the Sheikh.

Why they’re no good: This unit is dead before it’s even moved, along with the hundreds of pts. Ever heard of normal fast cavalry?
Rating: 3/10

VESPERO’S VENDETTA
[RANT]The normal warriors aren’t that bad, it’s just Vespero who we hate. A hero with four attacks who wears a scary rubber mask that causes fear. He alone causes fear. It means that sometimes he can only be hit on a six. And, because he alone will never outnumber anyone, he will never cause anyone to break based on fear. Amazing – two regular duelists will do the same thing he will do for 14 points – without the totally useless Fear Factor. Sorry if that was completely sarcastic, but Vespero is 85pts. OK, WS6 isn’t that bad but you’re paying so many pts. You can get 12 duellists for the price of him and I wander who does better? Though the models for Vendetta are great, so use ‘em as normal duelists.[/RANT]

Why they’re no good: Vespero
Rating: 3/10

TICHI HUICHI’S RAIDERS
What’s the point? If you’re Lizardmen normal Saurus Cold Ones are fine, and you can have fast cavalry and heavy cavalry in DOW which is much better. That’s all I have to say. There is just no point.

Why they’re no good: There is much better stuff
Rating: 2/10

RUGLUD’S ARMOURED ORCS
Many people think that these are useful and unique, that they can handle themselves in combat and have crossbows along with T4. A much better buy is vanilla DOW dwarves armed with crossbows: they're cheaper, they'll hit as often as Ruglud's boys, they're also T4, they're on smaller bases so you'll get a couple more of them into combat. Crossbows dwarves are a good solid buy along with Crossbowmen if you want them
– and are much better than the animosity-suffering greenskins. Ruglud remains primarily a choice for Orc and Goblin generals, who really want to use mercenary crossbows, but they favor 'greenness' over the more cost-effective humans.

Why they’re no good: DOW Dwarfs do the same job except much better
Rating: 3/10

Everything else is marginal – There are still some very good ones that didn’t quite make Best Buys (Crossbowmen, Heavy Cavalry, Asarnil the Dragonlord etc) and others which are bad, but still have some uses (Braganza's Besiegers, the Fellowship, or the Cursed Company).

Sorry if that was rather critical, but I meant to make it that way so your DOW/ROR army is better!

Feedback Appreciated,

Hex
(ex-Wolfhowl)

How come I can write 2,000 words easily for Warhammer but not for essays ?

EDIT: A few formatting modifications for indexing. ~DavidVC04

[kooshlord]

Another neat unit review, kudos! I agree with most the the points you mention. I've got one disagreement, a few modelling suggestions, and brief discussion of a few units you didn't include below.

My only disagreement here is I think you underrate the hotpot considerably. it ignores armor, so if it can kill 2-3 knights in a game, it pays for itself. 5 elves, and it pays for itself. 7 empire swordmasters. And under the center, it is S6 with D3 wounds. It can hit up to 9 knights (brets anyone?) or 21 infantry, so it doesn't take a miracle to achieve those kills. As far as circular template weapons go, I think it is the best in terms of cost-effectiveness. You just have to remember to shoot at T3 armor units. Cannons are better against monsters and chariots, but probably less cost-effective against knights and small-base infantry, unless your opponent lines up flank shots for you or lets you hit multiple units per shot. My cannons misfire an awful lot though, so that influences my opinion.

I personally also find dwarves to be awesome, especially in DOW armies. Dwarves+cavalry+ogres? yes, please.

I think there are some options to add for modelling:
-Light Cav can be represented by Chaos Marauder Horsemen, or Bret Mounted Yeomen.
-Pikes can be converted from Empire spearmen, or HE spearmen if you have some less pointy helmets.
-Norse Maruaders could be represented by Chaos Marauders. I think (but am not sure) that Norse Marauders are supposed to use the larger infantry bases anyway.

I think discussion of the Ogre Kingdoms Ogres would be profitable, as they can do everything DOW ogres do, for the same price (excepting command), have more options, and get impact hits to boot. Plus the addition of Maneaters (stubborn, immune to psych, S7 with great weapons) and leadbelchers (mobile ranged destruction, excellent flank guards) add considerable tactical options above the normal DOW ogres. Also, discussion of the mercenary Giant might be useful (terror, stubborn, large monster).

Koosh

[Hex]

I don't want to go into Ogre Kingdoms too since that's another army, but I know that the halfling hot pot is good, but I think that for just 35pts more you can have a cannon which is much more effective.

Hex

[Spon]

Well, I've just started using a DoW army, so here are my thoughts.

I generally agree with most things Hex said, but I have a couple of comments.

Light cavalry - the only downside is that the musician is realtively expensive (15 points).
He's basically a must-take, so the unit isn't as cheap as it should be.


Halfling hot pot - that's 50 points for a S3 mortar (WITH NO ARMOUR SAVE). Suddenly
all those brettonian knights aren't looking so good. 50/50 to wound with only their 6+
ward save. I think it's a must-have. But I'll also be taking a cannon too!

The cannon is the small S7 one, btw.


Golfag's Ogres are top. The amount of attacks at a reasonable strength almost
guarantees winning combat.

Birdmen of catrazza. I think you've overrated them. If they were 0points each I probably
wouldn't take them. I'm serious - remember they take up a rare slot as well as being overpriced.

Norse with great weapons, Ogres with great weapons, yep I take 'em. I use Chaos Marauders
on 20x20mm bases. They (just) rank up. And I'm pretty sure Norse marauders come on
small bases. Nowhere in the DoW list does it say they don't ...
I use a unit of Great Weapon-armed OK Ogres. That way I can take Golfag too!

Also, you've got your Dwarves in the RoR section. I haven't used any yet, but as I have
a dwarf army, you don't have to sell their usefulness to me.They just don't die!

Desert dogs are hideously overpriced. They would be overpriced even if they had bows (which
they don't).


Vespero's Vendetta - one thing you do get is a skirmishing unit that requires a psychology test in order to charge it. That's pretty good in my book. But they are a little too expensive.
25points cheaper and I'd take a unit of 10 of them.

Heavy Cavalry. Got to have a unit of these. Cheap and fairly effective. Add a hero/lord to
give them a little more oomph though.


Other than that, a good description of the various DoW units, thank, Hex

Cheers,
Spon

[Lord Yossanrion]

This looks like a handy thread. *Stickied*



~Yoss

[vindicator]

Might be aside the topic, but where would you categorise Tichi Huinchi and the cursed legion?
I am thinking of adding them to my lizard army one day, but i lack the experience yet to fully understand the capabilities of a unit and his rules.

[Hex]

Thanks again Yoss!

Well, this is what happened to the raiders, they are actually in the bad buys section:

TICHI HUICHI’S RAIDERS
What’s the point? If you’re Lizardmen normal Saurus Cold Ones are fine, and you can have fast cavalry and heavy cavalry in DOW which is much better. That’s all I have to say. There is just no point.

Why they’re no good: There is much better stuff
Rating: 2/10

I would rate the Cursed Company 5/10, though I wouldn't use them. They are weak and though the hero is good, they cost many pts and can be shot down easily.

~ Hex

[timk1111]

goods points.

by the way, in the new rules, pistols only count as hand weapons in combat (but they are exactly that, so they'll get hand weapon nd shield) and as a trade off they can always stand and shoot, even if the enemy is within half range.

so, in the new rules, theyl be more of a shooty unit. still, not bad.

before you ask, yes i have the book

however, it will make the slayer pirates suck.

also, spon, all cannons are s10. they were s7 in the 5th ed.

and the halfling hot pot offers no armour save for 1 shot only(guy over the hole). the rest are s3 armour piercing. its pretty good against hordes, but not againstt anything else.


lastly, cannons should be 10/10.
tim

[Cossack]

My DoW army goes back to when the Regiments of Renown were first released, so I don't have some of the newer units.

The 2002 list vastly changed my army. The Birdmen definitely are horrible. I've found that the best units in my army are the Venators and Golfag's Ogres. Note here - I play 100% Regiments of Renown, no generics.

The Galloper gun used to be COOL - move up, unlimber and shoot! But no more. It's vastly overpriced (probably because of that weak charater with the unit).

I've had to order some extra pikemen to get my Riccos Repubican Guard five wide so they can still use ranks. Why did GW do this to us?

Finally, Al-Muktar's guys are very good. At least that's my experience. They, the Venators and the Ogres are the only units worth the points - everything else is overpriced.

I miss not having the special characters though. Too bad I can take all of the named units, but have to lead it with generic characters....(using the special character models of course).

[kooshlord]

Originally Posted by timk1111

and the halfling hot pot offers no armour save for 1 shot only(guy over the hole). the rest are s3 armour piercing. its pretty good against hordes, but not againstt anything else.

the DoW PDF on the US GW website for Hot Pots says:
"Hits are resolved at S3, with no armour save allowed. The model under the hole of the template suffers a Strength 6 hit, with no Armour save allowed, which causes D3 wounds."

No armor save. Unless there is a more recent source that I am unaware of. This is the same language from the 2004 Chronicles list.