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sirisaacnuton · October 14th, 2009, 19:11

Unfortunately I've never gone against Lizardmen with Daemons (well, once, but that doesn't really count...). Only played EotG spam once and it was with a proxied VC playtest army. I have no idea how I'd approach it. Pit of Shades is a little pricey for a Herald, especially with it only being a partial. Beast Cowers comes to mind, but barring that I guess Bolt and Spirit would be my go-to spells (on Kairos)... no clue about handling Kroak. Sounds terrible. I'll add that to the playtest list along with Vilitch+5 other wizards with Tongue+Puppet.

One other thing...what's your take on 6 Flamers vs. 6 Hounds vs. 3 Bloodcrushers in terms of spending the non-character/core points? I have room for about 3 units roughly those sizes...tested 3 BCs + 2x5 Hounds but wasn't a huge fan. Thought about 3 BC's + 2x5 Flamers instead, though it could be 6 Hounds and 2x5 Flamers (or some similar combo).

Edit: I like the idea of using Unseen Lurker on Kairos to launch the BC's into something on turn 1. Kind of a Fastball Special.

moob · October 14th, 2009, 19:36

Pit's not a good spell, either. Remember, per the rulebook faq p2, there would be no randomization to see who gets hit and they'd get to use the best initiative for the entire model. In this case, you'd need a 4+ to hit with the partial and then they'd need a 5+ to fail. Stone throwers auto-hit if the center of the template is directly on a model regardless of whether the base is completely covered, but Pit doesn't have that rule :/

That's about how I was going about it, Bolt & Spirit against them.. but they were close to the Slaan and if I got within 24" of it (which is likely if I want to get within 18" of a steg for bolt), all my 6's would be discounted. And you can't have a herald fly over to march block them, since kroak and the stegs all flare. It's a tough match. Add on to that a potential 12 or so dispel dice and it's rough. Well, easy to make a draw, but rough to get a win.

As far as the remaining points, if you're sticking to the magic blaster list, don't go with the hounds. It just gives the opponent something to fight and get points off of. Flamers are better, imo, since they are better at avoiding damage when they need to. I'd say the same for bloodcrushers. Now I've seen 40ke use single crushers in his list to go hunting for warmachines and try to snipe characters... but that only really works for him because he has so many other threats running up in their face they don't have much time to worry about those. In your list, the crushers and/or dogs would be the only things they can track down (except the horrors).

*edit*
Also, per one of the rulebook faq's, rule of burning iron hits would be randomized, too.. that was my previous idea, to use that to snipe off the priests, but that's a no-go. Maybe lore of heavens to use uranon's and forked lightning from extreme range (avoiding their flares)? Doesn't seem like it would do enough damage, though.

sirisaacnuton · October 15th, 2009, 15:29

Hrm. I was thinking about going with the Keeper, which seems like it would be pretty easy for him (with support) to handle any one of those targets by itself... but on the other hand, he sure would get flared to death immediately after (or maybe even before). Stupid Lizards... That's bad news about Burning Iron too. It may be easier to gun for the Slann...those Temple Guard don't want to eat either Bolt or Spirit, nor do they want a Pit of Shades.

I had initially thought about Keeper+Kairos, Masque+3 Tzeentch Heralds (BSB ), Horrors, then 2x5 Hounds + 3 BC's. It seemed like it'd be easier to get the points necessary for Ard Boyz victories if I could win a combat by a bit then combine it with Ld lowering to crush a unit, instead of just plinking away from distance. The flying circus is great at VP denial while doing damage, but it doesn't have the hitting power to do 2600 points worth of difference, and has no way of getting banners for extra VP. I've also considered just going blasty but with a GUO as second lord (he could end a Stegodon real quick and probably survive at least one flare round from about 2 others). His lore is very strong, though he lacks the mobility of the other 3 GDs. I'd love the hitting power of a BT, but hate to lose a level 4 Daemon wizard.

moob · October 16th, 2009, 17:40

Still not sold on the hounds + BC's. Remember, if that's all your opponent gets to fight cause he can't catch the circus, he'll most likely get them down before he's wiped out. That means that you have to get that many MORE points to counter the loss of those units. And depending on the opponent's list, you can get those big point victories. If they don't have a flying dragon or something like that to be careful of, just fly into the center of his army and flare 4-5 units at once over and over. They'll quickly fall apart.

I will say that I do like the KoS over a LoC. Non-flaming attacks, some good leadership stuff (Phantamagoria going off when something is going to have to take checks at a potential -3 or more is truly ugly), and can fight decently well. He's my answer to a star dragon HE character.

GUO might be a good idea, but as you said, mobility will be the issue. He's got no good way to track down what you want to fight with him.

Chaosundivided · October 22nd, 2009, 18:23

The detail seemed pretty good to me. I remember your 'Ardboyz report from last year, and this one was even better. I think you did a pretty good job of positioning with Kairos against the Empire player. Personally, with that special rule, I wasn't expecting a win, but you pulled off some pretty good damage limitation.

October 14th, 2009, 19:11	#11 (permalink)
sirisaacnuton Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post Rep Power: 19	<a onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview ('/outgoing/http_d1_openx_org_ck_php_n_a83f474f_amp_cb_46587945173');" rel='nofollow' href='http://d1.openx.org/ck.php?n=a83f474f&cb=46587945173' target='_blank'><img src='http://d1.openx.org/avw.php?zoneid=22572&cb=46587945173&n=a83f474f' border='0' alt='' /></a> Unfortunately I've never gone against Lizardmen with Daemons (well, once, but that doesn't really count...). Only played EotG spam once and it was with a proxied VC playtest army. I have no idea how I'd approach it. Pit of Shades is a little pricey for a Herald, especially with it only being a partial. Beast Cowers comes to mind, but barring that I guess Bolt and Spirit would be my go-to spells (on Kairos)... no clue about handling Kroak. Sounds terrible. I'll add that to the playtest list along with Vilitch+5 other wizards with Tongue+Puppet. One other thing...what's your take on 6 Flamers vs. 6 Hounds vs. 3 Bloodcrushers in terms of spending the non-character/core points? I have room for about 3 units roughly those sizes...tested 3 BCs + 2x5 Hounds but wasn't a huge fan. Thought about 3 BC's + 2x5 Flamers instead, though it could be 6 Hounds and 2x5 Flamers (or some similar combo). Edit: I like the idea of using Unseen Lurker on Kairos to launch the BC's into something on turn 1. Kind of a Fastball Special. Last edited by sirisaacnuton; October 14th, 2009 at 19:18.

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October 14th, 2009, 19:36	#12 (permalink)
moob LO Zealot Join Date: Oct 2005 Age: 31 Posts: 1,462 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Rep Power: 77	Pit's not a good spell, either. Remember, per the rulebook faq p2, there would be no randomization to see who gets hit and they'd get to use the best initiative for the entire model. In this case, you'd need a 4+ to hit with the partial and then they'd need a 5+ to fail. Stone throwers auto-hit if the center of the template is directly on a model regardless of whether the base is completely covered, but Pit doesn't have that rule :/ That's about how I was going about it, Bolt & Spirit against them.. but they were close to the Slaan and if I got within 24" of it (which is likely if I want to get within 18" of a steg for bolt), all my 6's would be discounted. And you can't have a herald fly over to march block them, since kroak and the stegs all flare. It's a tough match. Add on to that a potential 12 or so dispel dice and it's rough. Well, easy to make a draw, but rough to get a win. As far as the remaining points, if you're sticking to the magic blaster list, don't go with the hounds. It just gives the opponent something to fight and get points off of. Flamers are better, imo, since they are better at avoiding damage when they need to. I'd say the same for bloodcrushers. Now I've seen 40ke use single crushers in his list to go hunting for warmachines and try to snipe characters... but that only really works for him because he has so many other threats running up in their face they don't have much time to worry about those. In your list, the crushers and/or dogs would be the only things they can track down (except the horrors). edit Also, per one of the rulebook faq's, rule of burning iron hits would be randomized, too.. that was my previous idea, to use that to snipe off the priests, but that's a no-go. Maybe lore of heavens to use uranon's and forked lightning from extreme range (avoiding their flares)? Doesn't seem like it would do enough damage, though.

October 15th, 2009, 15:29	#13 (permalink)
sirisaacnuton Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post Rep Power: 19	Hrm. I was thinking about going with the Keeper, which seems like it would be pretty easy for him (with support) to handle any one of those targets by itself... but on the other hand, he sure would get flared to death immediately after (or maybe even before). Stupid Lizards... That's bad news about Burning Iron too. It may be easier to gun for the Slann...those Temple Guard don't want to eat either Bolt or Spirit, nor do they want a Pit of Shades. I had initially thought about Keeper+Kairos, Masque+3 Tzeentch Heralds (BSB ), Horrors, then 2x5 Hounds + 3 BC's. It seemed like it'd be easier to get the points necessary for Ard Boyz victories if I could win a combat by a bit then combine it with Ld lowering to crush a unit, instead of just plinking away from distance. The flying circus is great at VP denial while doing damage, but it doesn't have the hitting power to do 2600 points worth of difference, and has no way of getting banners for extra VP. I've also considered just going blasty but with a GUO as second lord (he could end a Stegodon real quick and probably survive at least one flare round from about 2 others). His lore is very strong, though he lacks the mobility of the other 3 GDs. I'd love the hitting power of a BT, but hate to lose a level 4 Daemon wizard.

October 16th, 2009, 17:40	#14 (permalink)
moob LO Zealot Join Date: Oct 2005 Age: 31 Posts: 1,462 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Rep Power: 77	Still not sold on the hounds + BC's. Remember, if that's all your opponent gets to fight cause he can't catch the circus, he'll most likely get them down before he's wiped out. That means that you have to get that many MORE points to counter the loss of those units. And depending on the opponent's list, you can get those big point victories. If they don't have a flying dragon or something like that to be careful of, just fly into the center of his army and flare 4-5 units at once over and over. They'll quickly fall apart. I will say that I do like the KoS over a LoC. Non-flaming attacks, some good leadership stuff (Phantamagoria going off when something is going to have to take checks at a potential -3 or more is truly ugly), and can fight decently well. He's my answer to a star dragon HE character. GUO might be a good idea, but as you said, mobility will be the issue. He's got no good way to track down what you want to fight with him.

October 22nd, 2009, 18:23	#15 (permalink)
Chaosundivided Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: England Age: 19 Posts: 108 Blog Entries: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 27	The detail seemed pretty good to me. I remember your 'Ardboyz report from last year, and this one was even better. I think you did a pretty good job of positioning with Kairos against the Empire player. Personally, with that special rule, I wasn't expecting a win, but you pulled off some pretty good damage limitation.