1999 Daemons Vs Empire

[sorberec]

Note:- messed up the Thread Title - it's actually 1500 points (can't seem to edit after the fact)

Army Composition: Standard

Board size: 6x4’

Deployment Zones: Standard

Deployment Method: Hidden Setup



Introduction


After a few less than successful games against Nick (see here for the most recent and here and here for the ones previous to that) I finally managed to arrange a game with my Empire opponent Andy who I hadn’t played for two a half months.

When we were discussing what we were going to play Andy asked if I could bring a surprise army. Given the beatings I’ve suffered at the hands of Nick recently when taking High Elves, coupled with the fact that the wife has taken up Dark Elves, I’ve been considering switching to one of the “harder” armies and so thought I’d try Daemons of Chaos.

As this was just a normal game rather than tournament level practice like my last couple against Nick, my list was all my own work. Having not played with Daemons before I wasn’t overly sure which way I wanted to go with the army and ended up with two lists. One was an all Khorne army while the other was a bit more balanced and it was this one that I ended up using.


Armies


Empire


Warrior Priest (General)
* Dawn Armour
* Shield
* Sword of Might
* Barded Warhorse

Battle Wizard
* Level 2
* Warhorse
* Ring of Volans
* Dispel Scroll

Battle Wizard
* Level 2
* Rod of Power

7 Knights
* Full command
* Standard of Valor

10 Handgunners

20 Great Swords
* Full command

10 Halberdiers (detachment)

6 Pistoliers
* Champion
* Repeater handgun for champion

10 Flagellant Warband

Great Cannon

Volley Gun

After totting up Andy’s list for this report after the battle I found that, although Andy thought it was 1499 points, it was actually 1487 points (seems he added 12 points onto his Warrior Priest somehow) which wouldn’t buy much admittedly but it could have been an extra Great Sword or Handgunner.


Daemons of Chaos


Herald of Khorne (General)
* Armour of Khorne
* Firestorm Blade
* Juggernaut

Herald of Tzeentch
* Power Vortex

Herald of Tzeentch
* Power Vortex

11 Bloodletters of Khorne

10 Bloodletters of Khorne

10 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch

5 Chaos Furies

5 Chaos Furies

5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne

5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne

5 Flamers of Tzeentch


Yet again I’ve ended up going for a rather symmetrical list with lots of doubles of units. Maybe I could have dropped a couple of flamers so I could have bought some command for the Bloodletters that might have helped improve combat resolution.


Table Set-up




Today our terrain was a bit more varied than usual as not only did Andy bring all his buildings, which ended up on the right hand side of the battlefield, but Nick had got a couple of hills of his own made from filler (I think he said) and I’d got some base outlines for woods (made from plywood and spray painted green, just need to flock and add something for my magnetised trees to stick to).

While the large hill ended up in a corner again with a small hill opposite, the woods ended up halfway between the two with a hamlet on the right hand side of the table and the other two hills just off the centre.


Magic Selection


Empire


Battle Wizard on Horse
Lore of Light
1. Guardian Light
2. Cleansing Flare

Battle Wizard of Foot
Lore of Heavens
1. Portent of Far
2. Celestial Shield

Daemons of Chaos


Herald of Tzeentch
Daemon Lore of Tzeentch
1. Flickering Fire of Tzeentch
2. Gift of Chaos

Herald of Tzeentch
Daemon Lore of Tzeentch
1. Flickering Fire of Tzeentch
2. Glean Magic

Pink Horrors of Tzeentch
Daemon Lore of Tzeentch
1. Flickering Fire of Tzeentch


Deployment




For this battle we were using hidden set-up which is Andy’s preferred method given the way that normal set-up.

While Andy drew up a map I looked at the table to try and figure out how best to deploy. I guessed that he would probably deploy his artillery on the two hills and probably any missile troops centrally if not on the hill. Not knowing roughly what sort of force he would be putting down I placed a unit of Furies and Flesh Hounds on each flank.

My infantry blocks all went in the middle with the smaller unit of Bloodletters aligned roughly behind the woods to block line of sight to any artillery on the left hand hill. The Flamers I put centrally, figuring that would be the best place for them to have range and line of sight on his infantry

The Herald of Khorne went with the larger unit of Bloodletters just in front of the hill on the right and finally the Pink Horrors went to the left of the Flamers.

One Herald of Tzeentch went with the smaller unit of Bloodletters while the other went with the Pink Horrors.

When Andy placed his army down I was a bit surprised to see he put his mounted wizard with the Pistoliers although I wasn’t surprised to see his Knights and Warrior Priest went on his left flank. His wizard on foot went with the Handgunners (possibly an unwise move considering one of my usual tactics against the Empire is to target units with wizards in for shooting).

The Great Swords were to the left of the hill as I looked at it with the Halberdier detachment to the right of them. The expected unit of Flagellants went on the other side of the Great Swords.


Empire – Turn 1




Movement

Both the Pistoliers and Knights moved up fully into the village while the Great Swords and their detachment, plus the Flagellants, also moved up.

Magic

The foot wizard tried to cast Portent of Far on the Great Cannon but this was dispelled. The Warrior Priest called on Sigmar to grant Unbending Righteousness to him and the Knights.

Shooting

The crew of the Great Cannon took aim at the unit of Bloodletters in front of them and two Bloodletters were sent screaming back to the realm of Chaos.


Daemons of Chaos – Turn 1




Movement

The Flesh Hounds on the edge of the village declared a charge on the Pistoliers who elected to stand and shoot, putting a wound on one of them.

The unit of Furies on the right of the battlefield flew to the gap between the houses at the far end of the village while the other unit flew from behind the hill and towards the volley gun. The second unit of Flesh Hounds marched up behind the Furies, using the creatures as a shield from the human artillery.

The Flamers , Horrors and the General’s unit of Bloodletters all moved up.

Magic

Cackling the Pink Horror started to cast Flickering Fire at the Great Swords but overestimated their control of the magical forces and miscast suffering 6 wounds.

Likewise the Herald with the Horrors also miscast while attempting to cast Glean Magic and suffered a wound. Undiscouraged he attempted to cast Flickering Fire on the Great Swords but this was dispelled.

The remaining Herald of Tzeentch was out of range of the humans and so could not cast.

Shooting

The flamers unleashed 9 flaming bolts at the Great Swords but only 2 hit with 1 wound but the plate armour of the Great Sword was sufficient protection.

Combat

The Flesh Hounds crashed into the Pistoliers scoring 6 hits and 6 fatal wounds, leaving just the mounted Wizard who turned to flee. The Flesh Hounds restrained themselves as the Wizard ran into the Furies at the end of the village and was killed.


Empire – Turn 2




Movement

March blocked, the Knights could only edge a bit further forwards round the edge of the village.

The Empire infantry line all marched forwards towards the Chaos forces.

Magic

The foot Wizard attempted to cast Portent of Far on the Volley Gun but failed, as did his attempt to cast Celestial Shield on the Great Swords.

Both the Tzeentch Heralds concentrated and called on their Daemonic Lord to undo the power of the human god and remove the Unbending Righteousness on the Knights.

Shooting

Again the Great Cannon crew took aim at the Herald of Khorne’s unit of Bloodletters but miscalculated their distances and saw the ball land in the ground in front of the unit.

The Handgunners unleashed a volley at the Pink Horrors but were just out of range while the Volley Gun crew turned their machine to try and annihilate the Furies on the Empire right flank but the machine malfunctioned.


Daemons of Chaos – Turn 2




Movement

Both units of Furies declared charges – the unit on the left on the Volley Gun and the unit on the right on the Great Cannon. Both crews elected to hold their ground but on seeing the ugly mass of Furies bearing down on them, the Great Canon crew turned to run but the Furies swooped down and killed them as they fled.

The Flesh Hounds on the left marched forwards and around the far edge of the woods while the other unit turned around heading back to the edge of the village in anticipation of the Knights ambling past.

For the remaining moves both units of Bloodletters moved forwards.

Magic

Both Heralds of Tzeentch attempted to cast Flickering Fire on the Flagellants but their efforts were dispelled and the attempt by the Herald with the Bloodletters to cast Gift of Chaos failed.

Shooting

With their target edging closer the Flamers shot 13 bolts at the Great Sword but managed only a disappointing 4 hits and 3 wounds for a total of 2 fatalities.

Combat

The Furies swooped in on the Volley Gun crew and dispatched 1. The remaining crew failed to hit the flying beasts and fled only to be run down.


Empire – Turn 3




Movement

The Knights edged up to the edge of the nearest house, nervous of the Flesh Hounds lurking nearby.

The infantry line again moved forwards, aiming to get into charge range of the Chaos forces while the foot wizard left the Handgunners and moved to the foot of the hill.

Magic

The wizard attempted to cast Portent of Far on the Handgunners but failed while the Tzeentch intervened to stop Sigmar granting Unbending Righteousness to the Knights.

Shooting

A puff of smoke filled the air as the Handgunners fired a volley at the Herald of Khorne’s unit of Bloodletters, felling 2.


Daemons of Chaos – Turn 3




Movement

A whole raft of charges were declared by the Chaos forces. The Flesh Hounds on the right charged the Knights who failed their fear test and so would be needing sixes to hit in the following combat. Likewise the Handgunners failed their fear test as they were charged by the Furies who had previously seen off the Volley Gun crew.

The unit of Bloodletters on the left charged the Flagellants, the Flamers charged the Great Swords and finally the Herald of Khorne’s unit of Bloodletters charged the Halberdier detachment who turned tail and ran.

The other unit of Furies turned around and flew onto the edge of the hill while the Flesh Hounds on the left moved further round to be in a position to catch the Great Swords if they fled.

Magic

The Herald of Tzeentch with the Blooderletters tried to cast Gift of Chaos but this was dispelled.

Combat

Fluttering into the Handgunners the Furies struck out wildly but failed to score any hits on the Imperial soldiers. They did enough to distract the Empire men from scoring more than a hit in reply which failed to wound, but lost the combat and their Daemonic instability wiped them out.

The Flesh Hounds smashed into the Knights but could only score 3 hits and 2 wounds, 1 failed to get through the Knight’s armour. In reply the Knights and their horses failed to score any hits themselves leaving it to the Warrior Priest who scored 2 hits and a wound. Failing their instability test the Flesh Hounds took 3 wounds.

The Flamers ran into the Empire’s elite foot soldiers scoring 5 hits and 5 wounds but the plate armour of the Great Swords saved 3 of the troopers. In reply the Great Swords scored 4 hits and 2 wounds but Tzeentch gave a grisly Daemonic smile and saved the Flamers although 2 Flamers still died from Instability.

Finally, in the combat between the Flagellants and Bloodletters only a single Bloodletter and the Herald of Tzeentch were in contact with the Flagellants. The Bloodletter put its deadly skills into practice and killed its opponent but the Herald failed to hit. Having sacrificed 3 of t heir number the Flagellants in return scored a single hit and wound and a dead Bloodletter, leaving the combat in a draw.


Empire – Turn 4




Movement

The fleeing Halberdier detachment failed to rally and carried on running away from the Chaos forces.

The Handgunners turned round to face the Furies and the wizard joined them.

Magic

The Wizard attempted to cast Celestial Shield on the Handgunners but this was dispelled. Again the gods of Chaos intervened to prevent the puny human god from allowing the Warrior Priest to inflict Soulfire on the Flesh Hounds.

Combat

The Warrior Priest struck first against the Flesh Hounds and scored 2 hits and a wound but the Ward Save countered it. In response the Flesh Hounds scored 3 hits and wounds but only 1 Knight fell. The remaining Knights and horses struck back scoring 5 hits and 3 fatal wounds. The remaining Flesh Hound was sucked back into the Chaos realm as it failed its instability test.

In the combat between the Flamers and Great Swords the Flamers killed 1 Great Sword while in response the Great Swords, despite getting 3 hits and 2 wounds, failed to kill any flamers. However, from losing the combat the Flamer s died due to instability.

Finally the Bloodletter again slew a Flagellant while the Herald again failed to put any wounds on the Flagelleats. Having sacrificed another 2 of their number the Flagellants felled 3 Bloodletters.


Daemons of Chaos – Turn 4




Movement

The Furies charged the Handgunners while the Flesh Hounds charged into the back of the Great Swords.

The Herald of Khorne’s unit wheeled to face the flank of the Great Swords while the Pink horrors turned to their right and changed formation to face the Knights.

Magic

The Herald in the Bloodletters attempted to case Gift of Chaos but this was dispelled.

Combat

The Furies dispatched 1 Handgunner with no wounds caused in reply by the humans but the Furies died from instability.

Slobbering with the thought of human flesh the Flesh Hounds chewed up 5 Great Swords but the humans held their nerve.

Finally the Bloodletter again killed a Flagellant while the Herald also contributed a kill this turn. In reply the Flagellants scored 2 wounds but one did not get past the Ward Save.


Empire – Turn 5




Movement

Again the Halberdiers failed to rally and fled a teensy bit further towards the edge of the table.

Having defeated the Furies the Handgunners turned back around to face the rest of the action while the Knights moved up to try and come to terms with the Daemonic forces.

The Great Sword champion push through his men to get to the back of the unit and base contact with the Flesh Hounds.

Magic

The wizard tried to cast Celestial Shield on the Great Swords but this was dispelled. The Heralds of Tzeentch laughed as the Warrior Priest summoned up Sigmar’s power once more to cast Unbending Righteousness on the Knights.

Combat

The Flesh Hounds scored 7 hits and wounds on the Great Swords, only one of whom made an armour save. The Champion inflicted 1 wound in return and the Great Swords broke and were run down.

This time around the Bloodletter failed to score a hit on the Flagellants but the Herald stepped up to score a hit and wound. The Flagellants failed to score any wounds in return.


Daemons of Chaos – Turn 5




Movement

The Flesh Hounds declared a charge on the Knights who held while the Herald of Khorne’s unit of Bloodletters lined up on the Halberdiers.

Magic

The Tzeentch Herald’s attempt to cast Gift of Chaos failed but both Heralds removed the Unbending Righteousness protecting the Knights.

Combat

The Bloodletters finally defeated the Flagellants although they suffered another casualty in return.

The Flesh Hounds scored 5 wounds on the Knights but all bar 1 of these were saved. In reply the Knights and horses caused 3 wounds and the Warrior Priest another 1. Of these 2 were stopped by Ward Saves but the other 2 got through and the Flesh Hounds took another 4 wounds from instability.


Empire – Turn 6




Movement

The Halberdiers finally rallied, which was the last Empire movement of the game.

Magic

The wizard cast Portent of Far on the Handgunners which the Heralds let through. They did try to stop Celestial Shield being cast on the Halberdiers but failed. They did succeed in stopping the Warrior Priest unleashing Soulfire on the Flesh Hounds.

Shooting

The Handgunners managed a total of 2 hits (even after Andy got to re-roll several dice due to rolling a bunch of 1’s) and a single wound on the Herald of Khorne’s Bloodletters.

Combat

Swinging his Sword of Might the Warrior Priest still failed to wound the Flesh Hounds. The Flesh Hounds could only score 1 hit with failed to penetrate the armour. The Knights and horses also failed to score any wounds but the Flesh Hounds lost the combat and died from failing instability.


Daemons of Chaos – Turn 6




Movement

The Herald of Khorne charged out of his unit at the Halberdiers while the Herald of Tzeentch with the Bloodletters left the unit and marched towards the Knights.

Magic

The Tzeentch Herald with the Horrors cast Flickering Fire at the Knights but this was dispelled. The other Herald cast Gift of Chaos at the Knights scoring 6 hits at strength 6. 2 hits went on the Warrior Priest causing wounds but these were saved by the Dawn Armour. The hits on the Knights also wounded killing 2. Finally the Herald cast Flickering Fire at the Knights but this failed.

Combat

The Herald of Khorne struck out with his flaming blade, causing 2 hits and wounds on the Halberdiers and the Juggernaut another 1, but the Ward Save protecting the Halberdiers stopped all the wounds.

Unfortunately for the Empire the Halberdiers couldn’t capitalise on this as they failed to land a single blow on the Herald.


Conclusion


Well this was a pretty close battle - close enough that we had to tally up victory points at the end. I thought I’d lost slightly (probably down to usually playing High Elves where my models are more expensive) but it turned out to be a winning draw to me by about 150 victory points.

I’d be tempted to say after this that I don’t see what the fuss is about Daemons being overpowered but then I’ve no idea how this list would stack up against something a regular Daemon player might take and I guess I could have gone all Tzeentch and taken 3 Tzeentch Heralds and 3 units of Pink Horrors for 6 Flickering Fires pr turn.

I suppose in a way I didn’t see what this list was fully capable of due to the miscasts in my first magic phase which ended up costing the Horrors enough models for them to no longer count as a wizard and for the Herald with them to lose a magic level.

Tactically I don’t think I went too far wrong, except perhaps in expecting too much from the Furies when it came to attacking something other than war machine crew. I suppose in turn 3 I could have charged the lone wizard rather than the Handgunners but I was wary of the wizard running far enough that the Furies didn’t catch him and ended up getting shot down by the Handgunners. Knowing what I know now I might have chanced it anyway but as they say, you live and learn.

Perhaps the only other thing I’d have done differently is not moving the Khorne Herald’s unit of Bloodletters further across the field in turn 3, perhaps instead turning them round to invite the charge from the Knights in the Empire’s turn 6. Of course, with the charge the Knights might well have killed enough Bloodletters to ensure they won the combat no matter what the Herald did in return.

In terms of what Andy could have done differently, or more accurately what I would have done in his place, I’d probably have attacked the Herald of Tzeentch in the combat between the Bloodletters and Flagellants. As he was the one who could potentially kill more due to having 2 attacks, potentially popping models if he got Gift of Chaos off, as well as the fact that he would obviously be worth a fair few victory points, I’d probably have gone after him.

I probably also wouldn’t have moved the Pistoliers up so far in the first turn but taken the opportunity to get them close enough to take some pot shots with the Outrider’s Repeater Handgun and definitely wouldn’t have taken the charge from the Flesh Hounds – although I think Andy had forgotten what I’d told him about the various unit’s abilities as he commented when I did a flying move with the Furies on my right flank to the end of the village.

Anyway, a good game and it made a change from losing to Nick like I’d done for the previous few battles.

[Allonairre]

Great report as always, I think that you are certainly right about the list lthat you played with, it is in no way "over powered". I don't know about characters but certainly troopswise Khorne has the ones I worry about the least.

Just a note on Celestial Shield though, it is only a ward save from shooting and magic missiles, not from close combat attacks. It wouldn't have made a big difference though.

[sorberec]

Originally Posted by Allonairre

Just a note on Celestial Shield though, it is only a ward save from shooting and magic missiles, not from close combat attacks. It wouldn't have made a big difference though.

Well it might have done. The only reason I charged the Herald into the Halberdiers in my last turn was to try and break them and possibly panic the Handgunners off. If I'd managed to do that it would have turned into a minor victory for me.

[sorberec]

Next repot is online here