BSB position in a unit

[alfyb623]

Just got done playing a game where BSBs were involved. I played mine front and center but my friend said you can play your BSB in the back of the unit so he can't be targetted by the rank and file enemy models in CC.

Is this true that you can place your BSB anywhere within the unit he is in or does he have to be in the front rank?


Thanks

[Lasso290391]

The BSB is a character, which means he has to be in the front rank, just like your command group has to be. The only exceptions to this rule is if your BSB refused a challenge OR you are playing Skaven.

[Allonairre]

As far as I know the front rank is made up of characters and command. I have seen people squeeze vulnerable characters like Wizards to the second rank by including multiple characters in a unit.

Skaven may be an exception as I think their characters may have a lead from the rear special rule.

If a character is not in the front rank he cannot contribute to combat in any way, Not via leadership, no +1 for BSB, no attacks supporting or otherwise. A bit gray about whether this includes the AoE rerolls from BSB, RAW I think you get the rerolls, spirit of the game, who is proud to fight for a banner that flaps bravely behind you so I would say no rerolls.

Again Skaven are the only possible exception that I know of, I think it affects a wizards LoS as well so no direct damage spells.

[Lasso290391]

Allonairre I think you might be going from older rules.

1. Position in unit p. 97
No mention of any sort of penalty to the character if he/she is not in the front rank, only that they may go in the second rank if there is not enough space. Which means a character in the second rank can make supporting attacks.

2. Refusing a challenge p. 102
If the character refuses a challenge he has to go to the rear of the unit and may not attack and his/her leadership may not be used that round, no other penalties are mentioned.

3. Choosing a target p. 31
Direct damage spells do not need line of sight, but must lie in the front arc, not the same thing. Magic missiles require both. Hex and Augment need neither.

Please tell me if I missed something.

[Jackmoddle]

I think it's pretty clear. Pg. 97: "When characters join a unit, they are placed in the front rank." "If there is not room, some characters will have to go in the second rank." Seems pretty obvious to me they must be as far to the front as possible. 8th has been around for awhile, I think if there was a loophole for not putting you weak wizard in the front people would be exploiting it. Imagine if you didn't have to put Teclis in the front, you could never kill him.

[Zutta]

You occassionally see people running small frontage units of cavalry 3 models wide with all characters in the front, and then R&F in the back. This has the advantage of letting the R&F do supporting attacks, but the opponent cannot target the R&F troops, and must allocate hits to characters.

I guess it is conceivable in this line up that you may get a situation where it is feasible for the BSb to be in the second rank.

[clarky101]

it states that characters and command group HAVE to be in the front rank unless there is no room....

that being said you can have a traditional 5 wide unit with 3 models command and if you then have another 3 characters in the unit 1 of those 6 would need to be in the 2nd ranks... it can be any of those 6. so you could protect that weak wizard or BSB in that way.... then should your bsb wish to fight he can use the make way rule to move into combat displacing the standard or musician

[Digger]

it can be any of those 6.

wouldnt that be "any of those 3" (characters) ?

[Coffeeboy]

If you read page 93 of the RB it says that "champions, standard bearers and musicians can always be found in the forefront of the fighting,...". The rules on the BSB on page 107 infer very strongly that it is a standard bearer with extra stuff. My personal opinion is that it should be in the front of the front rank as it is the rally point for the unit + army. The RB says that the SB are the best fighters so they would not hide in the back ranks.

[Lasso290391]

If you read page 93 of the RB it says that "champions, standard bearers and musicians can always be found in the forefront of the fighting,...". The rules on the BSB on page 107 infer very strongly that it is a standard bearer with extra stuff. My personal opinion is that it should be in the front of the front rank as it is the rally point for the unit + army. The RB says that the SB are the best fighters so they would not hide in the back ranks.

...The battle standard is carried by a character model...

The battle standard bearer is a character and follows the rules for characters. And as has been stated several times above characters can go in the second rank if there is inadequate places in the first rank.