FBVW MkIII Finals: Match 49 - The Throng of Kazzad Dolvir v. Thalsorien's T. Throng

[Spector]

Match 7 - Chaos Wastes

First Turn = The Throng of Kazzad Dolvir

The Throng of Kazzad Dolvir

lords and heroes

Thane – General
Rune of stone
Shield
Master rune of Swiftness
Rune of cleaving
Rune of fury
142 points

Thane
Battle Standard
Master rune of gromril
Rune of striking
125 points

runesmith
master rune of balance
rune of stone
shield
127 points

Core

Dwarf Warriors 24 (runesmith)
Shields
Full command
241 points

Dwarf Warriors 25
Shields
Full command
250 points

Longbeards 19 (BS
Shields
Great weapons
Full command
Master rune of grungi
341 points

Special

IronBreakers 19
Shields
Full command
Rune of courage
307 points

2 Bolt throwers
2X engineers

Bolt thrower
Engineer
Rune of penetration
85 points

Rare


Gyro Copter

Organ gun

Power Dice: 2
Dispell Dice: 6

rune of stone +1 to armour
master rune of swiftness always strikes first
rune of cleaving +1 S
rune of fury +1 A
master rune of gromril 1+ save
rune of Striking +1 WS
master rune of balance -1 powerdice from enemy's pool +1 dispell dice to dwarf pool
master rune of grungi 5+ ward against shooting and magic missiles to all models in 6"
rune of courage immune to fear and terror
warmachine engineer BS4
rune of penitraiting +1 S to warmachines

2 PD
6 dispell (one from the enemy powerdice pool)

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Thalsorien’s Thundersome Throng

LORDS
Thalsorien Mordstone (Wizard Lord) (290pts)
•Level 4
•Shroud of Magnus
•Rod of Power
Lore of Metal: 3, 4, 5, 6

HEROS
Battle Wizard (90pts)
•Dispell Scroll
Lore of Metal: 1, 3

Battle Wizard (90pts)
•Dispell Scroll
Lore of Metal: 1, 3

Warrior Priest (134pts)
•Great Weapon
•Armor of Meteoric Iron
•Barded Warhorse

CORE
20 Swordsmen
•Full Command
•Detachment: 10 Halberdiers
•Detachment: 8 Handgunners

20 Swordsmen
•Full Command
•Detachment: 10 Halberdiers
•Detachment: 8 Handgunners

11 Handgunners

11 Handgunners

SPECIAL
1 Great Cannon

1 Great Cannon

1 Mortar

5 Knights of the Inner Circle (195pts)
•Full Command
•War Banner

RARE
1 Hellstorm Rocket Battery

1 Hellstorm Rocket Battery


SUMMARY
Points: 1998
Models: 112
Power Dice: 8
Dispell Dice: 7 (2 Dispell Scrolls)

Shroud of Magnus: Magic Res (2) and 5+ ward save
Rod of Power: Save up to 3 dice, but may lose them
Armour of Meteoric Iron: 1+ Armour save

[Arklite]

well what do you know... i've got the hill!

this game is going to be very difficult but with this table i reckon i can pull it off.

While the empire magic is notable with those accursed lore of metal spells i match them almost dice for dice meaning that every spell will be fought for tooth and nail.

The 5+ ward save and the general toughness of the dwarves should be able to provide protection enough to get the battle line across the table with enough troops left to smash and hammer the empire lines.

the gyro copter in all of this chaos and mayhem will be on war machine hunting duty assuming it doesn't get blasted by the cannons turn one (which generally speaking only helps me) and will use the pillar of chaos to dodge the line of sight of the larger part of the empires war machines.

As for empire firepower the hell storm rockets are inaccurate at best and will probably only score 1 or two hits against the battle line as it advances due to the cover presented. The cannons are a more accurate threat but also lack the awesome destructive power needed to smash the dwarven battle line. Empire handguns while potent need to hit on 4’s, wound on 4’s get past a 5+ (or 4+ with the breakers) save and then get past the ward save meaning they will have a seriously hard time causing any note worthy amount of damage in their limited firing times.

Due to the lack of hills and the need to maximise its firepower the thunder throng will be widely dispersed and probably unfocused when it comes to the combat.

as for my own firepower the bolt throwers should be able to inflict heavy losses on the empire blocks with little fear of responce if the empire wishes to damage the dwarf battle line. the organ gun will also provide a deadly kill zone and can be wheeled forwards for a turn to bring its auto hitting glory to bear.

with my more numerous combat blocks and the significant amount of cover on the table for my troops I put forward that the throng of kazzad dolvir will earth a lightning rod and use the thunder throng to power its neon victory banner.


:C

[Visitor Q]

Well gun lines are never as reliable in real life as they are on paper and the terrain does favour the dwarfs and seeing as I gave the Empire the benifit of the doubt the first time round I will argue the case that the dwarfs will be able to get into combat with enough of the stunties intact to deliver some serious beatdown.

Dwarfs FTW!

PS: Just for the record while I have an open forum to rant I just want to say it should have been me in the final, I wuz robbed and further more.... [ok Visitor thats enough spam Ed ]

[Spector]

Thalsorien's Thundersome Throng.

The hill will help the Dwarves a bit, but not enough in my opinion to turn the tide. The Empire list has so much shooting along with some spells with the Lore of Metal getting through should provide quite a punch. The knights also have enough speed to slam into a flank of weakened dwarves, which doesn't help the dawi chances.

[gingerninja]

Right. Time for my two penneth worth..... I shall group this into phases and see who comes out on top:

Movement: Well this one is difficult. I don't see the gunline doing that much moving to be honest. I expect it to sit back and fire for 3 turns until charged, then fire some more. The dwarves will have to foot slog, but they will be 6" closer by the time the Empire list fires. The empire have a unit of cavalry to flank with, but the Dwarves have a gyrocopter, which will be used to harrass, and with the cover, could prove to be a real nuisance for one turn.

This one is a draw I think. Neither army has a significant movement advantage. Not enough to brag about anyway.

Shooting: Again interesting. The Empire have more guns, no question of that, but they also have weapons that can misfire. The Dwarves have less guns, but they have 3 deadly machines that can never misfire. In the end it is 38 handgunners vs the dwarven armour on the march. I will now do my mathshammer on this:

At long range:

Hitting on 5's = 13 Hits
Wounding on 4's = 7 wounds (lets be generous and round up)
Death on 5's (normal warriors) = 5 dead
5+ ward to save some more = 3-4 dead

At close range:

Hitting on 4's = 19 Hits
Wounding on 4's = 10 wounds (lets be generous and round up)
Death on 5's (normal warriors) = 7 dead
5+ ward to save some more = 4-5 dead

Now lets give them 4 turns of shooting at the dwarven line. 2 at long and 2 at close range. That is a maximum of 18 deaths. It isn't enough to take out an entire unit of dwarven warriors. Sure the warmachines can supplement this, but the ward save will save them from 1 in every 3 wounds, even if there are no armour saves. And 1/6 times they will fail to wound (if cannons)...

In the end, I don't think the shooting case is strong enough for the empire to walk this one, especially as the Dwarves have the first turn. Their Bolt throwers can attack the empire battle lines with immunity from their hill, and if they shoot at them, it is even better for the dwarves as they don't have to weather the storm of the cannons/hellfires.

This one is a win for the empire, but not by any convincing margin

Magic:

Well as the Dwarves have none, then it is going to be a win for the empire. but bear in mind that they only have 7 PD to the Dwarves 6 DD. This is going to be tight, and with miscasts taken into account, and failed spells, I don't think the dwarves have anything to worry about.

Close Combat:

This one is the dwarves all the way. Their troops are more skilled, better in combat, and there are more of them. Their armour in close combat is phenominal, and although their ranks will be slimmed a bit by the time combat ensues, they will eventually win this one out. Their are two of their units to the one of each proper rank and file of the empire, and this will be the telling blow.

In the end, this will be a tight battle. It could go either way. But on the strength of their troops, their better deployment area, and their resistance to magic and shooting, I think it is Dwarves ftw

ninja out

[Manu_Forti]

Im reading the Rule of Burning Iron. Am I right in thinking that it means you can pick out any model in a unit? (ie, champion, standard, musician, character). If so, I think the Empire list can knock out the Runesmith and gain itself a nicer advantage in the magic phase (making it 8PD vs 4 DD), which will cause some serious damage with Spirit of the Forge etc. Which would lean my vote towards Empire.

However if Im reading it wrong, and the Rsmith cant be picked out, then magic isnt much of a factor. & I would lean towards Dwarves.

Let me know
Cheers

[Phoenix]

Indeed, the Rule of Burning Iron can be used to pick out characters within units, and with no LoS roll or anything like that either. If that gets cast in the first place then it will hurt the Dwaves for the remeinder of the game.
Ive been looking at this since it was first posted, and im just waiting for the Empire Tactic post before I vote....

As much as i hate to, im going to have to put my vote with the Empire. With those 3 large template warmachines each turn the Dwaves are going ton need a lot of luck to not take severe casualties as they advanve. Their boltthrowers may be able to grab a few kills, but the dwarf units will be weakened far more by the time they get in close, and with the detetchments able to stand and shoot, and then counter charge negating the dwaves remaining static Cres, even their high Ld wont last long. The Knights have the potential to launch a deadly charge too once the Dwaves are stuck in.

[DavidWC09]

Dwarfs have two hills to work with, not one. That smaller hill is partially in the Dwarf deployment zone.

Anyhow, interesting battle. While the Empire has more shooting, it has more enemy infantry targets to worry with. There will still be dwarfs left to do some fighting. On the other hand, the Dwarfs have less shooting but fewer targets in the sense that they can really hurt the two swordsmen units and there won't be much less for the Empire to rely on in combat.

Empire magic won't be nearly as potent in this game.

I'm voting Dwarfs.

[Cyric the Mad]

Everyone seems to have the gist of my strategy for this army (not horribly complex), so I won't go into that. 6DD vs. 7PD isn't nearly as nullifying for my magic as it is given credit for, since DD v. PD is never a 1-for-1 exchange - For example, if I roll a 5 to cast a spell, my opponent is likely to cast 2 dice to dispell it, even if I only used 1 to cast. I won't be able to cast indiscriminately, but I'm likely to get at least a spell off each turn.

The runesmith would be an early target for magic and shooting, in an attempt to make the magic phase a bit smoother for me. If successful on that count within 2 turns, the target would shift in an attempt to relieve my opponent of that burdensome ward save. If I can open up my magic phase and make shooting more effective, things could go south quickly for the dwarves.

Beyond that, with 4 sizable blocks of infantry, mortars and hellstorms don't have to be very accurate to do at least some damage. With concentrated fire and magic (based on how I've seen this kind of battle played out), I'm betting I could take down at least 1 or 2 of those combat units. It'll be a tough game for sure, but with hateful knights hopefully in position for charge support, I think I could pull this one off.

[Nephthysis]

Voting for Empire. Dwarves have a meat grinder of lead to walk through plus *some* empire magic is going to get through with even a slight DD deficiency and no scrolls to 100% guarantee a dispell on those clinch spells (Rule of Burning Iron).