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  1. #1
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    charge first turn with 2 demon princes

    THIS IS THE NEW RULES


    first off you take 2 demon princes with mark of slaanesh. give them both lash of submission and wings. You move 12", use 2 lashs' on one unit, bringing them 4d6" towarda you. If you can get 7 or more on these 4 dice, they'll be will/should be in charge range. they're 155 pts ea btw, moderatly cheap.


    ALSO: summond greater demons do not count towards the force organisation chart, so you can take 2 demon princes and a summond demon if you want. (just summon it through an aspiring champion or something )

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    Member Public Enigma's Avatar
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    They took out the ways to get a first turn charge in the new codex. But, it's not even released yet and someone figures out a way to do it with the new rules.
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    I salute you as well Penguin
    but wait take chosen with those guys and summon a bloodthirster through the champ know that would kill anything 2 princes and a bloodthirster imagine that on turn 2 already on your line:yes:

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    Senior Member Giant Mutant Chaos Lord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriots40001 View Post
    I salute you as well Penguin
    but wait take chosen with those guys and summon a bloodthirster through the champ know that would kill anything 2 princes and a bloodthirster imagine that on turn 2 already on your line:yes:
    whos penguin?

    great work on this find. i will test this the moment i get the dex!
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    there is a few issues with this as far as i can see its a good tactic but a mega points drain.
    firstly as the rule describes you gotta be within 24" and have LOS (visible target).
    However can a unit be moved again if its pinned from the first movement? not only this but what happens if you start having bad rolls, you have just moved that unit into rapid fire range or better still giving him a next turn charge with extra attacks picking on one lord and possibly letting him sweeping advance into your next lord.
    It all seems great in theory but in practical use its a very bad thing indeed.

    Lets say we take the best case scenario and you do get the charge? what then, you will undoubtly have killed that entire squad and left 2 deamon princes in the open with no squads to hide behind and for them to get shot to bits.
    I applaud you for being devious enough to work out a first turn charge but IMO its pratical use will hurt you more than it will hurt your opponent.
    Last edited by dizzie; August 17th, 2007 at 15:45.
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    Daemon prince can't hide anyways (monstrous creature) but that doesnt matter anymore cause they can't be instant kill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzie View Post
    there is a few issues with this as far as i can see its a good tactic but a mega points drain.
    firstly as the rule describes you gotta be within 24" and have LOS (visible target).
    However can a unit be moved again if its pinned from the first movement? not only this but what happens if you start having bad rolls, you have just moved that unit into rapid fire range or better still giving him a next turn charge with extra attacks picking on one lord and possibly letting him sweeping advance into your next lord.
    It all seems great in theory but in practical use its a very bad thing indeed.

    Lets say we take the best case scenario and you do get the charge? what then, you will undoubtly have killed that entire squad and left 2 deamon princes in the open with no squads to hide behind and for them to get shot to bits.
    I applaud you for being devious enough to work out a first turn charge but IMO its pratical use will hurt you more than it will hurt your opponent.
    I think that with proper tactics you can make it safer. Squad moved to little? First turn charge no good? Then don't. Blast it with ordinance or your AP3 bolters instead.

    I fully agree on the point that it can get risky if your not careful. But the infiltrating speedprince was good even if he charged first turn, right?


    Not sure about the pinning vs moving, but the BBB states they can't move during its following turn. RAW and you can move it again in the same turn, since it's not the units (its controllers) turn to move.
    Considering the fluff off the power, i can't see why not two sorcerers can enthrall the same unit. But then again, i want it to work, as im going to test it at least.
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    Senior Member dizzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backdraft005 View Post
    Daemon prince can't hide anyways (monstrous creature) but that doesnt matter anymore cause they can't be instant kill.
    I'm new to CSM's wasn't aware he was but he still counts as a IC so he can't be targeted if hes behind one of his squads, is that right? Need more clarity i'm used to playing DE so i got a few things to learn with regards to MC's. I know they can't be instant killed but if they are close enough they will surely die to shooting since they will be quite a bit ahead of the rest of the army.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fuard View Post
    I think that with proper tactics you can make it safer. Squad moved to little? First turn charge no good? Then don't. Blast it with ordinance or your AP3 bolters instead.
    Yes there is gonna be ways to adapt and make this tactic very useful, i can think of a few.
    It will be a great spell to use for thousand son's :shifty:
    2nd turn would be good possibly so you could maybe sweeping advance into other units, but i really do think first turn is out of the question.
    Last edited by dizzie; August 17th, 2007 at 17:00.
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  10. #9
    Charitably Tables People MVBrandt's Avatar
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    Lash of Submission is not affected by difficult terrain, so you would just fly up behind a building or something, target a visible unit to the left or right and in opponents' zone, and drag it into / through the building. Charge either into hard cover to fight them in case you kill them, or even better if you get lucky on #'s drag them fully through it and charge on the safe side. Hell, or just consolidate back behind it.

    It's pretty nasty ... it also has game-long effects b/c every turn you can continue to drag shit over to your other units as well.

    I find it ironic that they removed Khorne first turn charge and replaced it with this. Also, if you wanted to be really nasty you'd combine it with a flying khorne demon weapon lord, and make the target their pricey terminator or command squad or w/e (if such a target were available) ... then suicide bomb the 2d6+5 charging attacks into them.

    The Demon Prince is NO LONGER an independent character. He is simply a monstrous creature, and so can be picked out all day long. This is why in a lot of army lists people are paying 10 points less for just a sorcerer of slaanesh, since they are easier to move up fast and just keep behind a cheaper squad for the same general lash of submission effect.

    Some people are actually going WELL FOR 10 POINTS MORE DEMON PRINCE C'MON! Whether or not the list-posters are aware of the advantage to the sorcerers being IC's is beyond me, but it is a pretty big advantage I think.

    Also, the double sorcerers aren't to be laughed at. Slaanesh sorcerer lords are still going to get 10 force weapon attacks at I6 on the charge (3 attacks base, 2nd hand weapon for pistol, +1 for chargE). Just 2 less strength is all, so mileage varies based on targets.


    Also, to the earlier comment, there is no more bloodthirster for now, not until Codex: Demons at least. For now it's just a mega-cheap and very potent generic greater demon, whose statline for 100 points and no more demonvessel weakness is pretty impressive.
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  11. #10
    Senior Member dizzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MVBrandt View Post
    Lash of Submission is not affected by difficult terrain, so you would just fly up behind a building or something, target a visible unit to the left or right and in opponents' zone, and drag it into / through the building. Charge either into hard cover to fight them in case you kill them, or even better if you get lucky on #'s drag them fully through it and charge on the safe side. Hell, or just consolidate back behind it.
    Good point on using the scenery to your advantage, however there's a little guess work involved here and designing your army around a possible instance that a piece of scenery could be worked to your advantage IMO is a big no no, never mind the points drain that would be involved. Personally as was mentioned earlier I would use blast template tactic with this spell instead as it seems more reliable. Or using the spell to protect units is an option aswell.

    Good point about the sorceror aswell as alot of ppl do seem to forget that rule which is why I had in a round about way asked the question. I really do wish though that we could use 2 demon princes and use this to our advantage as a first turn charge but it seems too unreliable to me unfortunately.
    You could however and this is something i did seriously put alot of thought into and would work well, Use chosen as infiltrators and give them all HTH power weapon gear and move squads toward them for first turn charge while protecting your demon prince or princes in cover for a next turn charge and crush your opponent using the same tactic, This IMO would be the best use for the first turn charge scenario and points well spent to boot.
    Its just a damn pity you can't give chosen icons (

    EDIT: just read codex again I overlooked it you can give them icons, heh! all the better, I think this can be an insane tactic for first turn charge.
    Last edited by dizzie; August 17th, 2007 at 19:00.
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