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I havent seen this mentioned anywhere yeat, and noone seems to have pcked up on it as possibly broken or a good idea.
Tzeench Chaos bikers turbo boosting, they would get a 2+ Inv save. Very resiliant to shooting, and then charging into combat next turn.
That makes them pretty nasty, yet noone seems to have thought about using them in any lists ive seen so far.
By the new codex this is correct, however i think it may get an FAQ when GW get round to it.
Anyway, opinions on this?
It is quite intentional- if you look at the Specifics for the Marks, it directly says "Maximum of.." yet there is no unit that can reach that maximum, unless... you guessed it! Turbo
I assume when Daemons are re-released this will be a popular unit, but until then, it's just too expensive unless you revolve a list around it, or play larger games.
Good eyes, nonetheless
I don't think that the IoT will grant bikers 2+ inv. saves when turbo boosting. They will have their 5+ inv saves because "if given to a model that does not normally have an Invulnerable save..." and will have 3+ inv. save with turbo.
I'm pretty sure that GW will publish a Chaos FAQ and there will be a clarification about it.
Anyway i hope i'm wrong :-)
The rules for the Mark do say 'add to their Inv save (to a max of...)'
This makes me think that this is intentional, as this seems to be the only way to get a 2+ Inv save, otherwise as jONESIE said they wouldnt have included that.
Also its legal as when turbo bosing they get their normal Inv, and this is increased. I dont think this will be changed in an FAQ. If anything, it will need confirming.
I think GW have been quite clever here, the new dex seems balanced at first until you look and try to break it, leading to most Chaos armies being balanced and nasty tourney armies for those who want them.
Last edited by jONESIE; August 23rd, 2007 at 01:58.
I understand what you are saying, and it is correct.
If you are turbo boosting, then you will already have an Inv. Then, the Icon stacks, making it a super Inv++.
If you are not turbo boosting, you have no Inv, then the Icon gives you the bonus save.
Direct mention is given in the specifics for the Mark itself.. "up to a Maximum of...."- There is no other way to achieve this maximum unless it is via Turbo boosting Bikes
Edit- My apologies CptShadow, didn't mean for it to look like we are against you- Deciever must have posted at the same time as myslef
Last edited by jONESIE; August 23rd, 2007 at 01:50.
We've had this discussion before. Although there's no rules directly governing this case, we looked at a number of other erratas and rules calls on behalf of G.W.. The general consensus was that unless otherwise stated, upgrades only affect base stats, and not modified or conditional ones. In order to illustrate this point, we can looked at the power fist, which does not double other strength modifiers, such as daemonic strength (3rd ed). The same goes for the 3rd ed berzerker glaive, which only modifies the attack characteristic of the model's base stat lines and not additional attacks conferred by daemonic mutation and the +1 attack for the charge.
In regards to the inv save of a turbo-boosting bike (which is conditional, based off of the turbo-boost), the inv save conferred by the IoT would only provide a base save of 5+ inv (not 2+). Again, this interpretation hinges on the fact that G.W. typically only allows modifying agents to affect base stat lines and not conditional or previously modified stats. Makes sense?
Last edited by Rabbit; August 24th, 2007 at 05:45.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
Yeah... I am going with the +2 turbo boosted save until I am told otherwise by GW officially.
Anyways, I feel it is another instance of the Designers incorporating this type of lunacy to lessen the 'nerf' backlash- in this circumstance, 3rd Ed Chosen Champ Bike unit with Dae Armour. (I never used it but was still very popular.. poor old Necrons )
There seems to be no way for the IoTz to even give a unit a 3++... yet the Specifics reference one better than that So unless it is a very, very severe typo, I still assume this goes against the grain of the usual examples you gave, similar to Uber Grit, therefor allowing it to be stacked.