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What do you guys think about the new Deamon Weapon rules?
Do you think that the risk of taking a wound like that is really worth it? Especially because of the lack of attacks.
To me the bloodfeeder seems to almost be too risky to use. However the payoff would be huge on double 6s.
I still haven't decided whether I like the new Deamon Weapon rules yet, I guess I'll have to play a few more games to see how it works for me.
Anyone with a little more experience with the new 'Dex want to give some input?
You Can't Stop the Eighp
Had Tzeentch before I knew how to play :P
I would gladly use the blissgiver or the bloodfeeder. They are awesome and easily worth the risk, especially the Slaneeshi. The Nurgle and Tzeentch daemon weapons are not with it.
The undivided one has the most general application, but they all have their strong points, except for the plaguebringer. It fills the same role as the blissgiver, but with less efficiency.
Wayne, the Tzeentch one certainly has its uses. It's one of the few ways that lords can soften up a unit prior to charging it. I wouldn't knock it too much yet ;Y.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
The Blissgiver is probrally my favourite one, and the one with the most payoff in Char. Vs Char. The Bloodfeeder is extremely risky, but has the potental to wipe out units.
I've used the generic demon weapon and made it into close combat so far. Both times my lord has been close combat with troops. The lord has gone first, kills everything in base-to-base, and then the other side can't attack. Even on a roll of a two, the extra attacks have been enough to make the difference between being hit back and not having anyone who can hit back. I'd say the generic one is worth it. I've just been thinking about giving the lord wings as opposed to terminator armor.
Hows it going Andusciassus? Yeah it has been a while. Haven't really been playing much 40k in the last year and a half. But about 2 months ago I started up again. And now I'm pumped about the new 'Dex.
About the Nurgle Deamonweapon, how is that not good? You just send him at bigger targets. Like a Hivetyrant or Carnifex... something that a normal lord wouldn't be able to hurt. It just fills a completely different roll thats all.
The last game I was playing against a Death Guard player, and my Normal TS could not even touch his DP who was nurgle rotting them to death. His 4 attacks would normally cause 1 or 2 wounds and then I would save them all... and then he would nurgle rot during his next turn and I would fail 2 of my saves
But anywho, I like the Tzeentch deamon weapon as well, its nice to have that shooting right before the assault. Unless they take the models out that would prevent the charge.
Can't wait to get in more games with this new Codex!
You Can't Stop the Eighp
Had Tzeentch before I knew how to play :P
Take a Carnifex, for instance. The Plaguebringer might wound on 4+, but needs to inflict all four wounds. The Blissgiver might need a 6+ to wound, but only needs to inflict it once. This is, of course, not taking into account Synapse.
Plaguebringer has two issues that aren't readily apparent. First off, anything that the ability is useful against (T6 or higher) will generally also have a Strength of 8 or more. Just off the top of my head, I'll try to think of various targets...
Hive Tyrant - Plagebringer useful against shooty Tyrants. CC Tyrants will usually take +Init., +WS, Toxic Miasma, and +S at the very least. Six attacks, hitting on 3+, wounding on 3+, and only savable on a 5+. That's roughly two unsaved wounds... not very good odds. The Plaguebringer Lord is probably an even match, but has a very good chance at being killed before even striking.
Carnifi: Plaguebringer will strike first, but if he fails to kill it, he's likely to be Instant Killed. Lords should not be attacking models with a strength of 8 or more unless they can reliably kill it. Attacking a four or five wound model will never be reliable.
Wraithguard: Probably the optimal target. Best case scenario for Plaguebringer Lords.
C'tan: Falls into the same category as Carnifi, except they now get an invulnerable save and you hit less. Unlikely that you'll survive the encounter.
Avatar: Similar to C'tan, except he can't instant kill you. Wounds on 3+. Predicting a long, drawn out combat.
Wraithlords: As with Carnifi. However, no Synapse to hide behind, so Blissgiver becomes an even better option. (Except I'm a retard, and forgot that Blissgiver can't wound, so no option is good here.)
Can't think of much else in the game that has a T6 or higher.
Against the Avatar and Carnifi outside of Synapse, if you are silly enough to assault them, the Blissgiver will yield better results. The ability to kill on one wound trumps wounding on a 4+. Since most models that have a T6 or higher have multiple wounds, the Blissgiver becomes more attractive.
The second big hindrance of the Plaguebringer is that it actually hurts you when you attack T3 models. Because of the mechanics of Poisoned Weapons, you will always wound on 4+, even if your basic strength would've yielded a better result. How's that for a kick in the pants?
Okay, that's enough bashing on Plaguebringer. Moving on.
Undivided DW is probably the 'best' of the lot. The +1 Strength is one of the most important factors in winning a combat. Wounding on 3s instead of 4s is significant.
Bloodfeeder is too random to be considered good. Roughly 32% of the time it'll backfire. Too high of odds to rely upon. Great for fun games, but not something to rely upon in a serious, tournament style of list.
Deathscreamer is actually decent, especially if you compare it side by side to the Bloodfeeder. A bit riskier, since you essentially double the amount of chances to harm yourself, but rolling a one during one phase doesn't cripple you in the next. It also gives you options, rather than forcing the Lord into a Close Combat role.
Blissgiver is right up there with the Undivided DW. Combined with a Daemonic Steed, you can recreate the assassin Lords of our previous Codex.
Just my thoughts. Take 'em or leave as you see fit.
Take note the Deathscreamer gets its attacks hitting on a 2+ instead of 3+ or even 4+ because of ballistic skill. That puts it above bloodfeeder in many ways.
My favourite is easily blissgiver though, brilliant weapon. It is also well complemented by its mark unlike the other daemon weapons. Big creatures don't care if your plaguebringer is T5 or not, when you have 18 attacks 1 more makes no difference, when you're shooting an enemy you're own invul doesn't matter. However when you're fighting characters your initiative is vital.
Also Cal, wraithlords are can't be wounded at all by blissgiver cos of high toughness, same with ctan. Plaguebringer is best there with undivided managing to wound them on 6's.
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I agree that the Blissgiver is the best Daemon Weapon available. Tzeentch is okay as well just used for a different role. However, my biggest problem thus far with them is that they don't do enough damage. I know you can get max 10 attacks on the charge with any non bloodfeeder but since you need 4s and 4s you end up only killing 2.5 MEQs at maximum. I feel that the lord should have S5 or all daemon weapons should have S5 like the undivided version. The old super chaos lords from last codex are gone and I understand that, but at the same time I don't think S5 is that out of the question for every DW to have.