Ok, with the new codex, you have the new terminators. In the 3rd ed, they cost __ ponts each, with power weapon and a combi-bolter. To upgrade thm to space marine ones they would cost 41 points. Now with the new codex, they costs a whole 11 points cheaper than there space marine counter points. Is there reason behind GW madness?
Well, for one thing, chaos terminators cannot get assault cannons. Don't loyalist termis also come with a power fist instead of a power weapon? This upgrade would add 10 points to the chaos termis cost.
Gracious Meg! You've got flame on the brain . I'm planning on using a similar configuration, but with combi-plasmas. The heavy flamer is just too darn cheap to pass up, and it remains effective against MEQs as well. It's also a good idea to throw a couple chain fists into the squad, or at least fists. You never want your termis running from a wraith that they cannot wound or getting locked into c.c. with a carnifex. Best to play things safe sometimes, ya know?
When it comes to point cost, I try and keep special units like terims and raptors at or near the cost of 10 marines in a rhino. It just makes sense to balance points between units.
I've also been dabbling with the upgrades for a 6 man termis squad: between 3 pairs of lightning claws or the IoK- same price. Against most things, the claws are superior. The big hangup with twin claws is the loss of the combi-weapon. Ranged first strike means everything.
Well, also consider that unless you mark your termies they are pretty dern vanilla. Though still termies. The mark + goodies brings it up to similar points costs, I think.
But I concur, I may be toying with the idea of putting termies myself.
But then they suffer from the SAME OLD problems delivery. DSing makes them a HUGE priority target to kill off when they come in, and as usual, LRs have a big "blow me up" sign perpetually stuck on them.
It DOES sound tasty, but you have to consider what you're going to do until they get to where they need to be.
The new Chaos Icons rules allow you to deep strike within 6" of it, or the vehicle that carry it. Why not to use this vehicle as a shield for your termis. Deep strike them in order to get maximum effect with minimum risks. Delivery is not so much of a problem anymore.
Let's not forget our friends the Teminator Aspiring Champions. By upgrading one or two you can get those extra Lightning Claws-attacks and still have some models to pack combiplasmas, Reapers Autocannons and Heavy Flamers.
This is my 5 man Terminator setup:
2 x Terminator Aspiring Champions with Lightning Claws
1 x Terminator with Reaper Autocannon and Chainfist
2 x Terminators with Combiplasma and Power Weapon.
Icon of Khorne or Slaanesh depending on opposition.
Theyre not overly expensive and are good all-roundes.
You could even cheapen the unit a step further and remove the power fist, especially if you're running multiple terminator units. This would ensure that they all receive their attack against MEQ's.
I'm considering running two like Karmoon's configuration, and then a 3rd with 6 termis that makes use of 2 chain fists.
I have to agree with Mindraked. With the new rules for icons and the reduced cost of the landraider I do not think that getting the termis to where they need to be is such a problem any more.
While it's true that you can't use those claws on a deep strike turn, don't forget that even a squad of 5 Termies can shoot the hell out of the enemy (especially if you land within 12"!). I always try to give my Termie units balanced wargear because they are so slow, and if they all had dual LCs they would have maybe 3 rounds in combat if they're lucky.
I like the Icon of Tzeentch on Termies because a 4+ invulnerable save gives my enemies fits. I'm not really sold on the other Icons yet, but I'll try 'em out and see...
That is what combi weapons are for... Deep strike next to a tank, blow it up, and use it as cover... Deepstrikeand use combi plasma to eradicate an entire MEQ squad before they can fire on you...
Termis do not need to charge on the turn that they deep strike in order to be effective... it sure wouldn't hurt though.
And the landraider, it didn't drop THAT much in points.
It dropped enough to get an additional termi with combi plasma or 2 and a fraction more marines which in my book is quite enough. You can get a landraider with daemonic posession (which is much more hardy) and an extra marine for the cost of the old Landraider.
I just want to see my enemies face when i deep strike a unit of 10 terminators next to my possessed with the icon. Will the unit of 10 be expensive point wise, hell yes, will it be worth it to have it happen just once, again hell yes.
With space marines , your paying 10 points extra for your seargant, who has a power weapon, when we can get a whole squad of Aspiring Champions, with a power weapon, for 40 points each
Over the last few days I've been running a Chaos Terminator unit like this:
Chaos Terminators Terminator Champion
- Twin-linked bolter
- Chainfist 7 Chaos Terminators
- 5 with twin-linked bolters
- 2 with combi-plasma guns
- Icon of Khorne
Pts: 305 (I think. I don't have my army list on me and I'm far too lazy to do the math).
Anywho, these guys have been working fairly well. Since Chaos Terminators are so much cheaper than the loyalist ones, I don't feel dirty taking large units of them. I've also noticed that this unit is very much a hit-or-miss type of thing... it either lands, shoots the living hell out of something and then assaults next turn, or lands, shoots the living hell out of something, and then promptly dies in the enemy's turn.
I think 3 termies is nothing more then a prime target to die. Very little resilance against volume of fire. If your intent is to draw fire from other units then ok, otherwise, I doubt they'd ever get the opportunity to use those flamers.
Whistles, 350 even for 10 is a lot of points. Consider dropping all but 2 powerfists to bring those points down. You really should not ever need more than that. The power weapons will do a number on 90% of all things they encounter and mop up with the fists.
D.s. is far more effective with the new icon mechanics, so having a moderate level of rapid firing combi-plasmas functions very well as a surgical unit. I've used something similar to Karmoon's configuration, except without the power fists. It's cheap and still retains a fine ranged punch:
4x termis
*3x combi-plasmas
*1x heavy flamer
I agree that needs to be kept cheap, but combi-plasmas have so much versatility and rapid firing precision with d.s, plus being only 5 points, I'd consider them near automatic upgrades. Even a 6 man squad only increases the point cost by 30, and yet, you have enough fire power to virtually destroy all kinds of medium to heavy infantry.
Yeah, this is one thing in the New Chaos list that I don't understand. The basic terminator is not much more than the Thousand Sons or Plague Marines. Of course the expense is in the weaponry, but still, I don't see why anyone wouldn't take six or so. The WH player I know has some allied GK Termies, and with Nemesis force weapons and a couple of psycannons they're astronomically more expensive. He's not happy seeing his five terminators take so many more of his points than the Chaos version. I know the basic weapons on the GK, shrouding, etc. make up much of the cost difference, but still.
Does it seem to anyone else that the points cost for built-in abilities and skills is greater than the cost to buy stuff? I'm sure GW has some sort of formula for figuring costs, but a Demon Prince with wings, an icon, and a major psychic power is cheaper than most HQ options I've seen. And how does GW assign points for special abilities? Some stuff, like weaponry, seems pretty standard, but I wonder about ability-type skills. How does GW figure a major psychic power costs 20 points while the Necron Veil of Darkness is 60, for instance?
Another trend seems to be that some of the Chaos points adjustments will carry over to other codexes as they're developed. In the meantime, however, we have situations like the Rhino costing 15 points less for Chaos than for any other army. I wish GW could simply release a statement that common vehicles like that should all be reduced.
Sorry, I seem to have changed the subject. Those new Chaos terminators look really nice. Luckily, I never have to play you with my Necrons.
Well GKTs are their own joy in doom. they are worth their points, they're just a lot of times prohibitively expensive.
I think its in the utility of the ability(and how its measured by the development team).
In the necron army, yeah, the VoD is the "bargain" piece, but what else to they have? Yeah, the flying circus can be devestating but really what else "neat stuff" do they get.
I agree that the psychic powers are over priced. I don't know why they did that. But I smell a complete nerf of the 'cron codex when it gets redone.
As far as "cheaper" stuff, they're trying to balance by points cost(which is easier than balance by design change).
I haven't seen the new termies yet.
But to the original subject. I do think that the termies are now usable in armies. I'm looking forward to trying them out myself. But I think I'll still stick with my design concept. Keep as many basic as possible(even termies need redshirts) and buy only what you need to make them devestating.
Say, in a 5 man squad, I'd have 1 powerfist, and a 3 combi plasmas. It should be cheap enough for it to be able to get its points back rather quickly, tough enough to hop in and kill a few things that are choice and nasty and survive.
I'd probably just double that kit when I go to 10.
BUT this is just theory, I can't test any of this out until I'm back in the states and when I finally get the gumption to go back to chaos.
Hey guys, with the recent point reduction making terminators a more viable option, as well as the point reduction to the land raider, I was wondering if anyone has thought about possibly starting a Deathwatch type army, consisting of mostly land raiders and termies? Just kicking around the idea and wanted to get some thoughts.
Slaanesh
5 terminators w/
1 combo melta
1 combo flamer or melta
1 heavy flamer
1 icon slaanesh
1 chainfist
I usualy take 2 units of them and use my icon to help drop them where the 2 flamers can do the most dammage.
Khorn
4 terminators w/
4 champions
1 icon khorn
1 heavy flamer
1 combo melta
2 pairs of lighting claws.
These guys get put into a land raider with a lord with a power weapon or deamon weapon if im feeling silly.
Both groups will cost you under 200 pts(land raider not included) and ether give you terminators with I5 or close to 22 power weapon attacks on the charge.(not including whatever the lord can dish out.)
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