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  1. #1
    Ahhhhh.... nekochen's Avatar
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    110 (x4)

    Chaos Biker w/ Tzeentch Icon

    When Chaos Bikers are given Nurgle Icon they become Toughness 6.. what happens when you give them Tzeentch Icon? 2+ Invulnerable save while turbo boosting?

    Anima Tactics - try it out!

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  3. #2
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    385 (x8)

    Yes. I believe that's right. Turbo boost turns the save invulnerable. The icon grants the bonus to any invulnerable save, it is not specific about where the invul save comes from.
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

  4. #3
    The Demagogue Amishcellphone's Avatar
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    of course this only applies to shooting.
    "War does not determine who is right - only who is left" Bertrand Russell

    We bring only death, and leave only carrion. It is a message even a Human can understand.

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  5. #4
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    385 (x8)

    Yep, as per normal turbo boost rules, otherwise, they're stuck with their "normal" invul.
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

  6. #5
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    We had this debate about a month ago, and then again, a couple of weeks later. I took the opposing side, namely, that the basic 3+ save is not affected by the IoT. For laziness sake, here's my post from earlier:

    "Although there's no rules directly governing this case, we looked at a number of other erratas and rules calls on behalf of G.W.. The general consensus was that unless otherwise stated, upgrades only affect base stats, and not modified or conditional ones. In order to illustrate this point, we looked at the power fist, which does not double other strength modifiers, such as daemonic strength (3rd ed). The same goes for the 3rd ed berzerker glaive, which only modifies the attack characteristic of the model's base stat lines and not additional attacks conferred by daemonic mutation and the +1 attack for the charge.

    In regards to the inv save of a turbo-boosting bike (which is conditional, based off of the turbo-boost), the inv save conferred by the IoT would only provide a base save of 5+ inv (not 2+). Again, this interpretation hinges on the fact that G.W. typically only allows modifying agents to affect base stat lines and not conditional or previously modified stats. Makes sense?"

    Here's the original thread:
    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...d.php?t=102445 (2+ Inv saves for bikers?)


    EDIT: bad spelling.
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  7. #6
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    385 (x8)

    Well, it makes sense, but I'm not sure I agree just yet. . Simply due to the fat that the turbo boost ability states that the save becomes invulnerable.
    Houraaay for GW's retarded rules guys.
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

  8. #7
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theyak View Post
    Well, it makes sense, but I'm not sure I agree just yet. . Simply due to the fat that the turbo boost ability states that the save becomes invulnerable.
    Houraaay for GW's retarded rules guys.
    Agreed. I'm not sure either way, though, I'm leaning against a 2+ inv save. Heck, it's not unheard of for G.W. to turn around and prove us all wrong, somehow. ;?
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  9. #8
    The Demagogue Amishcellphone's Avatar
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    You have a reasonable point there rabbit, I would probably side with you on the matter merely because I don't think GW intended to give a unit that can move 24 inches a turn a 2+ inv save against the only thing that could easily target it (because it's unlikely that a chaos player would allow any unit to assault his bikes unless he was doing the assaulting).
    "War does not determine who is right - only who is left" Bertrand Russell

    We bring only death, and leave only carrion. It is a message even a Human can understand.

    W/D/L
    Eldar: 3-3-1

  10. #9
    0!=1jumpin'punch'swing jONESIE's Avatar
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    I feel silly quoting this much form the linked thread , but it pretty much sums up the two sides of perspective. I agree with Rabbit's logic, but GW has really turned the table on these usual situations due to the introduction of Ubergrit, and the general changes in 40K itself via new Codexes and streamlining.

    Have to say I'm a supporter of the Turbo Stack, due to the fact that ... there's simply no way to even get beyond 4++, let alone 2 ++, with IoTz. Unless you turbo with bikes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit View Post
    We had this debate about a month ago, and then again, a couple of weeks later. I took the opposing side, namely, that the basic 3+ save is not affected by the IoT. For laziness sake, here's my post from earlier:

    "Although there's no rules directly governing this case, we looked at a number of other erratas and rules calls on behalf of G.W.. The general consensus was that unless otherwise stated, upgrades only affect base stats, and not modified or conditional ones. In order to illustrate this point, we looked at the power fist, which does not double other strength modifiers, such as daemonic strength (3rd ed). The same goes for the 3rd ed berzerker glaive, which only modifies the attack characteristic of the model's base stat lines and not additional attacks conferred by daemonic mutation and the +1 attack for the charge.

    In regards to the inv save of a turbo-boosting bike (which is conditional, based off of the turbo-boost), the inv save conferred by the IoT would only provide a base save of 5+ inv (not 2+). Again, this interpretation hinges on the fact that G.W. typically only allows modifying agents to affect base stat lines and not conditional or previously modified stats. Makes sense?"

    Here's the original thread:
    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...d.php?t=102445 (2+ Inv saves for bikers?)
    Quote Originally Posted by jONESIE View Post
    I totally understand and agree, your logic is perfect! (although GW... )

    Anyways, I feel it is another instance of the Designers incorporating this type of lunacy to lessen the 'nerf' backlash- in this circumstance, 3rd Ed Chosen Champ Bike unit with Dae Armour. (I never used it but was still very popular.. poor old Necrons )

    There seems to be no way for the IoTz to even give a unit a 3++... yet the Specifics reference one better than that So unless it is a very, very severe typo, I still assume this goes against the grain of the usual examples you gave, similar to Uber Grit, therefor allowing it to be stacked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaffar_Hasad
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    They still exist?
    LO RULES

  11. #10
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by jONESIE View Post
    I feel silly quoting this much form the linked thread , but it pretty much sums up the two sides of perspective. I agree with Rabbit's logic, but GW has really turned the table on these usual situations due to the introduction of Ubergrit, and the general changes in 40K itself via new Codexes and streamlining.

    Have to say I'm a supporter of the Turbo Stack, due to the fact that ... there's simply no way to even get beyond 4++, let alone 2 ++, with IoTz. Unless you turbo with bikes.
    That's awesome JONESIE, you quoted yourself .

    Honestly, JONESIE, I don't really follow this line of reasoning. Could you elaborate?

    There are models that have multiple inv saves, and yet, they don't receive and additional bonuses. Chaos Lords with termi armor, for instance, have 2 5+ inv saves, and yet, we don't improve upon the inv save. One of them is just wasted.
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