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So I've been gone for a few months and I want to start playing again. I just found out the new codex arrived and the iron warriors are now worthless.
Dont get me wrong, IW needed to be nerfed badly, but now I cant even make a 1500 point army. Is there any way to make an army with my models that has any cohesive strategy now?
Models I have:
HQ: 1 lord
Elite: nothing now that oblits are gone.
Troops:40+ csm's with including various heavy weapons heavy bolters, lascannons, and autocannons
Heavy: 6 oblits, defiler, basilisk (probably can convert this to a vindicator or predator or something), enough heavy weapons for multiple havoc squads.
It looks like the new codex almost requires you to use troops with marks if you want to be effective, or am i missing something? I dont want to have a broken army, I just want to use what I have to make an effective army using what I have.
It'still possible to make an IW army, but it's more centered now on the assault portion of the siege, the old 9 obli's/4 ordnance which never was in line with the IW fluff is thankfully dead.
I take heavy bolters for your troop choice and send all your lascannons/lascannon to the havoc sqaud, given you now have to X number of marines it's vital that the weapons you choose doesn't make the extra marines a wasre, so either dual special weapon or a heavy bolter/plasmagun combo which is proven to be very populair.
IW aren't completely useless, there's apocalypse coming out soon which will allow us to make use again of the basilisk and all those extra heavy support we have.
Most of what i've heard people whineing about, in regards to the Iron Warriors, is that their ability to take an extra heavy is gone.
However technically they could still take a lot. For example, take three units of terminators, all with land raider dedicated transports, and then fill up your heavy slots with whatever you may like. Oblits or vindicators or whatnot.
But as for your current model set, i'm sure you could feild a decent force with it. Just have to look at the options you have and get creative
In the Castle of Pain on a Mountain of Skulls I sat on a Throne of Blood. What was will be, what is will be no more. Now is the season of Evil!
- Vigo the Carpathian
really, with what you have, the only thing you can't use are 3 of those oblits, or either of the vehicles. you have 4 heavy slots and can only use 3. perhaps you could convert 3 of those oblits into something else, or convert one of the tanks. or you could just keep everyting for increased diversity.
you should probably consider getting some elite units though.
"I have seen you humans, trying to forge an Empire in the name of a corpse"
Note that fluffwise there were always marked iron warriors.. Their index astrates book mentions using khorne worshipping assault troops. Don't feel your army is any less iron warriors if you take marks, rather, the old codex was wrong there.
That said, there is a definite CC slant to the basic Troops choice now, so you should start thinking of your basic squads advancing up the field while Havocs provide covering fire. Wait, you can't, because Oblits and Havocs are both Heavy Support...hrm.
I would consider Terminators. They are remarkably cheap (points-wise, not in $$) and the power fist is optional. Otherwise, I would seriously just spam Troops - the basic CSM punches above his weight, in the sheer amount of attacks that can be granted with, say, IoK (Marks are now called Icons.) Consider one Havoc squad to keep all your heavy weapons in so that they aren't wasted, but...really, 40 CSM is not a thing you laugh at, not when it's running up the field brandishing three weapons in two arms.
The reason I suggest Terminators is just that with the Oblits shift (which is what has really stuffed you) you have a huge gap in your Elites slot and an overfull Heavy Support slot. I would take the Oblits and a single Havoc squad over the tanks, personally, but others will disagree as to which is more effective.
You should really shift the focus to your Troops. That's the new party central - Icon'd (is that even a verb? stupid Gav.) CSM.It's also that Obliterators were moved to Heavy Support, thus limited the number of Obliterators that could be taken in conjunction with tanks or Havocs. I can sympathise, the same thing happened to me when BA Scouts got made Elites - I couldn't fit any of my 3 Dreads into my list because the fluff I'd already written demanded I take many Scout squads, so I was forced to drop either 30 Scouts or 3 Dreadnoughts. Don't laugh, that's a hundred and fifty dollars down the drain either way. I was pissed.Originally Posted by Lord_Blackstone
The above poster = Totally a member of the Fluff Masters Clan. Click here for fluff pwnage.
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Mr_Wayne: "Some people believe that the World Eaters do not field any ranged weaponry. Those people often die at a distance."
Thanks a lot for the advice. I know IW has always had marks, but MY army hasnt. My armies fluff is that they disdain the gods, and use them as a means to an end, but they do not vie for their favor.
Keeping a few oblits and converting the rest to terminators is actually a fun idea. Makes for expensive conversions, but its better than wasted models.
The problem is that my armies focus will need to shift from "sit and shoot" to being the aggressor. Chaos's greatest strength is now its hth and its difficult to make shooty army that wont get rocked by eldar or tau.
So two more big questions. What ways are there to deal with skimmers now that tankhunting autocannons are gone? Theres a lot of tau at my local store so I need a plan, melta guns wont help.
Also, are havocs even worth it anymore? I can get 8 havocs with 3 lascannons for the price of 3 obliterators, so I trade two wounds for terminator armor, ability to move and fire, oblit weapons, deep striking, and all that fun stuff. Of course havocs there will always be a time and place for havocs, but for general purposes I feel like oblits are better bang for my buck in any army that contains other highly armored targets.
Honestly I feel like chaos have become the new space wolves. Crazy armored guys with guns that love melee.
Thats harsh poodle.. really harsh. As for IW fluffwise you not only need to load up on oblitz you also need to take artillery defilers which is insane with their new cc abilities and anything capable of having a demolisher cannon *hint hint* so effectivly i must say IW has ceaed to exists as they simple will not fit the FoC no matter what.
so if you still want something that feels like IW should feel you need IoCG squads with lascannons in Rhinoes and one of each of the above mentioned heavies. won't be pretty but it will be IW.
If you are that dead set against marks then don't take them. Basic CSM are still good enough without them and to be honest I take the Chaos Glory Icon more than any of the bothers just for the LD re roll.
The other point of view is that you can now be more free to take marks, just make them represent different things! Go "counts as" crazy! In your fluff do you want to have a bunch of marines that are more bionic than marine? Just model them appropriately and use the rules for plague marines. Do you want to have a bunch of IWs with experimental weaponry and force fields? Again, model them appropriately and use the 1k sons rules. Do not see the dex as a 1 dimensional thing where everything is exactly what it is described as in the dex. There is a "counts as" rule for a reason and there has never been more of a reason to use that rule than the nex chaos dex.the At pred is now the best anti skimmer option imo.So two more big questions. What ways are there to deal with skimmers now that tankhunting autocannons are gone? Theres a lot of tau at my local store so I need a plan, melta guns wont help.havocs and oblits will tend to be shelved more often than not in favor of armor to help draw fire away from our rhinos.Also, are havocs even worth it anymore? I can get 8 havocs with 3 lascannons for the price of 3 obliterators, so I trade two wounds for terminator armor, ability to move and fire, oblit weapons, deep striking, and all that fun stuff. Of course havocs there will always be a time and place for havocs, but for general purposes I feel like oblits are better bang for my buck in any army that contains other highly armored targets.
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your taking my comment out of context.
The old army that consisted of a DP, several sqaud of min-maxed troops, 4 ordnance and 9 obliterators has never ever in line with our fluff, every article you read on IW always shows huge amount of normal marines that do all the fighting, yes we have obliterators and big guns but no IW grand company consists soly of that.
It was terrible and gave us decent IW a bad name cause of fools who used it, if you want a fluffy IW then make sure you have a good amount of troops in it as that is where the true siege aspect comes in, numbers.
Last edited by Dreachon; September 27th, 2007 at 18:06.