Ahriman vs. Other Lord Choices - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Neferata's Avatar
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    Ahriman vs. Other Lord Choices

    Hey everyone, my initial plans for the new chaos list was to use Ahriman as my general for games between 1750 and 2500 points, but I've recently started to second guess myself on it, in exchange for a tzeentch marked lord on a disc with a daemon weapon.

    I love Ahriman, but I've been playing against Eldar a lot recently (with the old chaos book), and I've realized just how much of a pain runes of warding are going to be (and other magic protection for that manner), and if you can't use his sorcery, then you're wasting a lot of points on him.

    In case you would like to see the rest of my list to see whether or not the list needs ahriman, here it is (2000pts)

    3x squads of 9 thousand sons (sorc has warp time)
    1x squad of 9 tzeentch terminators (1 chain fist and 2 powerfist)
    2x squads of 9 undivided havoks with 4 lascannon

    I feel like I've got a good mix of anti-infantry and anti-vehicle, and I love the fact that Ahriman can easily fill the gap of whatever the army needs (anti-armor, infantry, hand to hand), but like I said, against all the psychic hoods and runes of warding out there, I wonder about his reliability.

    The Lord on a disc with a daemon weapon seems very versatile and can be used with or without magic protection. My only other thought was to perhaps to a winged daemon prince with warp time and MoT.

    Or, since I'm already spending a lot of points on a lord, do you think it would be better to just say "the hell with it" and use Abbadon with the terminator unit?

    What do ya'll think?

    My 40K Armies:
    ----------------
    - Thousand Sons
    - Mordian Imperial Guard

    - TAU
    - Dark Eldar

    My Fantasy Armies:
    ---------------------
    - Lhamian Vampire Counts
    - Empire

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  3. #2
    The Love Muffin [Black] Katalyst's Avatar
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    Ahriman can dish it. I want to run him with 9x TS marines in a Rhino or even a Landraider in larger games. The thought of all those AP3 shots is too much not to try.

    Every option you list for an HQ seems completely viable. The Daemon Prince is a nice build. He can easily get where he needs to go, same with a Lord on a Disc. I personally like our new handy dandy Force Weapons.

    I'd split up those Terminators. DSing them woutfitted for CC isn't to effective seeing how many armies use a lot of plasma weapons. I like the idea of 5x Termies with 5x Combi Plasma/Melta guns. A possible 10x Plasma shots can easily down a Hive tyrant, Carnifex, Wraith Lord, HW squad, etc... At only 175pts its a steal.


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  4. #3
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Hello Neferata.

    Your list seems a little too elite. Las-havocs are inordinately expensive and generally overkill.
    Are you using rhinos for your Tzeentch marines? If yes, then the rhinos will need a distraction. Predators and/or defilers come to mind.

    Ahriman is one of those pups that a lot of players are curious to see on the field. After all, he can kill and entire marine squad in a single round, once he's within 6". While he's a pricey fellow, and difficult to use against psi-blocking armies, you should give him a whirl against chaos, necron, or even marines. It should be a good test of his abilities. While you're at it, you should then post the results here, so all the chaos players can leech off your experience :party2::party::party2:.

    Overall, regular ole sorcerers and princes are more cost efficient, but as B. Katalyst said, the special characters are now viable.
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  5. #4
    Senior Member Neferata's Avatar
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    I'm just not a huge fan of using vehicles since it only take ONE shot to ruin their day, or one bad terrain roll, etc.

    I am, however, toying with the idea of dropping a havok squad an adding two possessed vindicators (the price of the two vidicators would be the same as the 1 havok squad I'd drop).

    I'm actually playing a game tonight against a mechanized marine army with about 9-12 assault cannons in it. I'll post the results.
    My 40K Armies:
    ----------------
    - Thousand Sons
    - Mordian Imperial Guard

    - TAU
    - Dark Eldar

    My Fantasy Armies:
    ---------------------
    - Lhamian Vampire Counts
    - Empire

  6. #5
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Neferata View Post
    I'm just not a huge fan of using vehicles since it only take ONE shot to ruin their day, or one bad terrain roll, etc.

    I am, however, toying with the idea of dropping a havok squad an adding two possessed vindicators (the price of the two vidicators would be the same as the 1 havok squad I'd drop).

    I'm actually playing a game tonight against a mechanized marine army with about 9-12 assault cannons in it. I'll post the results.
    I used to feel the same way about vehicles in 3rd edition chaos. However, in numbers, vehicles can stand up fairly well to tank busting fire. In most games, at least a third of my vehicles are still doing their job on round 6. It requires good placement and advancement, but it can be done quite effectively for chaos. I'd recommend dinking around with rhinos and predators for a couple of games. Rhinos, in particular, have hidden versatility that most people don't utilize, namely, blocking LOS to enemy units and delaying aggressive c.c. squads from reaching your lines.
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  7. #6
    Painting Machine! Tekore's Avatar
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    Since the new Chaos 'dex really made the named characters a workable option in your army, I can understand the desire to work Ahriman in, especially if you've done so in the past. The guy really is a monster against many armies, but it may pay not to bench him against better spell and warding armies like the Eldar to reach something more smashing.

    I must agree with Rabbit as to your havocs, although I'm not sure you wanted other critiqueing on your list. I believe that they are a bit overkill.

    I hope this helps!

    Tekore

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    Maybe you drop a havoc squad and get 2 possesed vindercators.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Neferata's Avatar
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    Tried out a few games with vindicators and a few with the havoc squads, and while it was only a few games with each, my games using the havocs went much better.

    The vindicators were amazing on the first few turns (disabling/destroying a couple vehicles/troop squads per turn), but they were always annihilated by turn two. I should mention that these games were at the 2500 point value for ard boyz.

    With the havoc squads, they didn't do as much damage per turn as the vindicators (at 2500 points I was able to add one more sons squad and another havoc squad with 4 autocannons), but overall, since their survivability was much greater, they did more damage.

    Tried both Ahriman and Abaddon out. Ahriman rocked since he had no librarian, but Abaddon shined like a star.

    In one game he killed a tac squad, a predator, and then soaked up fire from about 8 assault cannons and an equal amount of heavy bolter shots before dieing. In another game he destroyed a couple dreadnaughts and a couple razorbacks (there weren't any infantry left from the AP3 bolters).

    I also tried throwing a greater daemon into the mix, but the new summoning rules, combined with the fact that it can't fly, made it much harder to get into combat (especially if it is summoned on turn two and you don't have any infiltrators close to the enemy). At least it costs less now.

    In my old sons list, rhinos were a godsend to me since they were so good at blocking those pesky dev squads with 4 missile launchers from being able to shoot at me, but now that they have that invul save built in, I'm not as worried about the strength 8+ weapons.

    I appologize to the mods that this is turning out to be more of a list critique than a lord overview; that wasn't the original intent.
    My 40K Armies:
    ----------------
    - Thousand Sons
    - Mordian Imperial Guard

    - TAU
    - Dark Eldar

    My Fantasy Armies:
    ---------------------
    - Lhamian Vampire Counts
    - Empire

  10. #9
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    708 (x8)

    I'm of the opinion that if it doesn't really matter to your fluff, take Abaddon. He's a complete and utter beat stick. If you're already going to shell out the points for Ahriman, it's only a few more to upgrade to Abaddon. In for a penny, in for a pound.

    You said it yourself - Ahriman can be shut down. Psychic Hoods, Shadow in the Warp, Runes, all of it ruins his day. Losing the ability to cast his spells without taking a psychic test goes a long ways to ruining him for me. Without his spells, he quickly becomes an over priced, run of the mill Sorcerer. Blah.

    Abaddon, as you experienced, is just plain powerful. There is really nothing an opponent can do to stop him, other than perhaps playing a Mechanized Skimmer army (Eldar; Tau) and kiting away from him. But you seem to have enough firepower in the way of your Havocs to help against that, and you could see about putting some combi-meltas into the Terminators for a bit of added punch. Swapping one unit of Lascannons for Autocannons would also help against this particular issue.

    Ahriman is powerful, yes - but Abaddon is consistently powerful. That's the key difference.

    As for Vindicators - don't use them without Rhinos. The idea behind Vehicles is 'All or nothing.' Either flood your opponent with so much armour that he's punished for whatever he does shoot at, or deny him a target for all his anti-tank weapons. Taking only a couple only leads to having them prime targets for all the lascannons on the table, and gets them blown up on turn 2, just as you experienced.


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