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  1. #1
    Member Chaeron's Avatar
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    Chaos not marked marines

    I've just been wondering, as most player use marked marines, what can we do with those "naked" marines? I rearly sow people using those marines, every one prefering berserks for h-2-h (which is normal), nurgle marines for short range fire (again, here you do not need to get to a 10 men squad for 2 special weapons), slaneshiis for defensive purposes (there again, why put a 10 men saud for only a missile launcher?) and tzench for anti-marines.

    So here is my question:

    What can we create with those basics marines which is pretty strong?

    I've been playing 10 men squads, 1 champion, 2 special weapons, a fist and a rhino. This squad is not the best for fire and not the best for h-2-h. so it's more a medium skill squad. But do you guys have an idea or can you give me examples of what you use?

    If you don't use them at all, no need to say so, i already know!

    Thanks


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  3. #2
    LO Zealot Ironangel256's Avatar
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    I run two units of the exact setup you mentioned Chaeron and absolutely love them. You are aware of Ultra Grit right?

    As in rapid firing bolters and getting +1A for two CC weapons?

    The basic CSM is by far the most powerful troop pound for pound in the entire game.
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    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Yeppers, I run three squads with no cult marks in the same configuration as you've listed. Of course, I give them the Glory Icon. It's too cheap not to use.

    as Ironangel said, they are staple troop choice.
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    Formerly BrotherAzriel Horus Lupercal's Avatar
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    my small force so far consists of my lord, 10 bezerkers ina rhino and 10 CSM with bolters, a heavy bolter, plasma gun and champon with power weapon and blter, they make a great supporting sqd and arnt afraid to get stuck in either!
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    Member Chaeron's Avatar
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    yes, but are they that effective? plus, if you put three of those, (in a rhino i presume) you have something like 795 points taken just for those guys (785 if you put one melta unit). So i was wondering if it wasn't too expensive, why not put 6 or 8? of course you're below the 10 men squad so no additional weapon but still, it's cheaper. Is it the ultimate combination? are they effective in h-2-h (compared to berzerks...). I know they cannot be as effective as specialist in h-2-h. What do you put to support them? Vindics? oblits? defilers? LR? khorn? terminators?

    Anyway, thanks a lot for answering me! 8X

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    well

    I also run the same 10 man squad in a rhino but I've had a lot of trouble recently. For starters, everyone knows all my troop choices are in the death coffins so delivery is a real problem. And secondly, they cost quite a lot. My 10 man squad with 2 Plasma Guns and an AC with Power Fist costs 230 points with IoCG. Then add on 35 points to the rhino and it is a large point sink.

    Perhaps I need to get better at using a rhino, but they just never seem to get to where they need to be. Lately I've been thinking of doing an 8 man squad with AC using a combi-bolter and then upgrading the rhino to DP so it can shrug off some of those nasty hits. I think this might work since I rarely fire a special weapon more than once a game with a rhino squad anyway.

  8. #7
    skate to live. double.bind's Avatar
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    It's funny how much more important getting the first turn has become for me.

    I use three Rhino squads, and the worst thing that has even happened is they had to get out, taking one wound. But it doesn't remove them from the game, just forces you to adjust tactics to not leave them totally behind, or compensate for their loss by putting most of your army together on a flank.

    The basic ten man, with fist and two meltas (in my case) rarely fails me. Strong combat abilities coupled with staying power. And for 245 points before an Icon, its not that expensive.

    Part of Rhino use is hiding them first turn, at least enough to get a hull down. And if you are lucky enough to get that first turn never forget the smoke.

    One of my bigger problems is what happens after I disembark. It screams to the enemy to use any of those frag launchers, or other templates. Or Inferno Bolters... *shudder*

    Upgrades on the Rhino are tricky. For every point you sink into a vehicle thats only purpose is to "get there" thats points you didn't spend on troops that would have got there.
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    Senior Member Thyr's Avatar
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    Now that all the restrictions are gone I think we'll see them come back more often in army composition.
    I use 2 of them in my Mechanised list and their leader is a non-marked Sorceror.

    They are the cheap jack-of-all trades troop of the Chaos army and they are good at everything even if master of none. 2 of my opponents told me that Khorne Berserkers and Plague Marines are overkill when it comes down to CC and that 10 CSM are a force to recon with.

    If you want more troops in your list then I recommand them instead of taking the Marked Troops.

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    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaeron View Post
    yes, but are they that effective? plus, if you put three of those, (in a rhino i presume) you have something like 795 points taken just for those guys (785 if you put one melta unit). So i was wondering if it wasn't too expensive, why not put 6 or 8? of course you're below the 10 men squad so no additional weapon but still, it's cheaper. Is it the ultimate combination? are they effective in h-2-h (compared to berzerks...). I know they cannot be as effective as specialist in h-2-h. What do you put to support them? Vindics? oblits? defilers? LR? khorn? terminators?
    Chaos marines are virtually effective at everything, to put it simply. You have to bear in mind that chaos marines are all-purpose squads, so no, they are not nearly as good as berzerkers in c.c., nor can do they have that awesome rapid firing 'plasma punch' of deep striking termis. Again, they're just good solid units, and I've never regretted investing a large number of the points into 10 man chaos marine squads in rhinos.

    The smaller squads, of which I'd take no less than 7 and preferably 8, actually work quite well. While you're losing the dual special weapons, you can always compensate by equipping your a.c. with a combi-special weapon and/or the rhino itself. This works particularly well in smaller point battles .

    As far as supporting these units, you really need other vehicles that distract your opponent away from the rhinos. Defilers are an obvious choice, but, I still prefer predators for their tank busting ability. Deep striking termis with combi-plasmas are excellent support to anything, as are chosen with plasma guns.


    Quote Originally Posted by EcchuBlessu View Post
    I also run the same 10 man squad in a rhino but I've had a lot of trouble recently. For starters, everyone knows all my troop choices are in the death coffins so delivery is a real problem. And secondly, they cost quite a lot. My 10 man squad with 2 Plasma Guns and an AC with Power Fist costs 230 points with IoCG. Then add on 35 points to the rhino and it is a large point sink.
    Rhinos actually have a decently high learning curve. We typically think of them as merely a way for getting marines into close proximity with the enemy, but the rhino also functions as a wall before and after the marines disembark. I constantly use mine to block L.O.S. from enemy devastator squads. They take good timing and advancement.

    Yes, rhinos certainly can become metal coffins, but in my experience, most players tend to focus on my predators and/or defilers, which I've always regarded as a huge mistake. For one thing, the rhino squads are at least twice as expensive, and for another, they're easily gunned down. Additionally, a stranded rhino squad that's half-way to the enemy lines tends to get killed at range, while they're footslogging it. But for some reason, my opponents virtually ignore the rhinos, until they're within rapid fire range; and by then it's too late. Given these types of scenarios, rhinos *can* be used quite effectively.
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    well

    Well who knows perhaps it is just a function of terrain placement. My opponents always go after my rhinos before my other armor so I am still not certain how to use them. Yes, they are good to block LOS especially to Daemon Princes but to do this they should also have no cargo inside. To me, the most annoying rule is that if it is penetrated everybody has to get out. You only get 1 smoke launcher pop a game so I guess you better make it count.

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