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I'd like to start a thread about vehicle usage within the Chaos codex.
Rhinos, Landraiders, Vindicators, Dreadnoughts, Defilers, Predators, even bikes (they're kind of vehicles)
Basically, it's an opportunity to impart wisdom about how to use vehicles. Not just on their own, but in conjunction with other units - like infantry or what not.
There's a lot of people like myself who used all infantry armies in the old codex, I feel I have a lot to learn with how to use rhinos to their full extent.
When to pop smoke? When to disembark? How to disembark?
So, go crazy, thanks in advance and remember to respect the forum rules and each other. If it takes off, we can sticky it and add it to the FAQs.
As it's early days of the new codex, I'd very much like this to grow with our own experiences of the new codex.
Good idea Karmoon8Y
I guess I'll start with rhinos and predators as thats what I mostly use. This is just the tactic I use generally.
First off always try to keep the rhinos behind something so if the enemy gets the first turn he doesn't blow them away before you even use them. On your first turn try and move them as close as possible to the enemy to close the distance. (If you get first turn try to keep them out of the enemy's tank's line of sight for the enemy's next turn. I always try to predict the most logical place he would move his tanks next turn and try to keep my vehicles out of his LOS.) Pop the smoke so all his anti tank weapons don't shoot them up too badly.
By now you sould also have supporting predators (their what I use) behind the rhinos, yet scattered depending on the enemies set up, and in the open. They should have also popped smoke if there are no enemy tanks to shoot at (Although many people would pop the smoke anyways even if they had tanks to shoot at, especially if their using the autocannon las sponson configuration). The next enemy turn he will have to choose between many armoured targets all with smoke around them. Usually I hope that he shoots at the predators as they have better armour and I want the troops in the rhinos to get to his lines.
Against marines and tau, which is what I usually I against I try for my troops next turn either unleashing rapid fire death, or if I'm not able to get within rapid fire range I put the rhino in front of the squad further protcting it. Usually your troops have to endure at least one turn of shooting before the assault happens.
If the predators survive they go for the enemy's tanks.
Also since I use two squads of chosen extensivly in 1500 point games the rhino's (if they suvive) can block line of sight to them as well.
If anyone knows how to improve this please tell me.
(pondering my strategy for weakness)
The Mad Man Inside
Dreadnoughts are armoured walkers that fight alongside troops on the battlefield. They are one of the cheapest alternatives to provide heavy support to any Chaos army. Dreadnoughts will usually draw a lot of fire as it is a fearsome opponent in close combat and it rarely miss with its twin-linked weaponry and its excellent BS therefore making him a reliable tank buster or infantry killer. It might fall easily to heavy fire but if used to support the infantry then it can become a mighty tool in your armoury.
With the new codex the Dreadnoughts are now an Elite Choice and that means that we will see them a lot more on the battlefields in conjunction with other heavy support choices. Also he comes equipped with a smoke launcher which is always handy. One of their drawback is their new fire frenzy rule that make them a little more dangerous to your own troops early in the game as a couple of 1's could turn the battle in your opponents favour. That aspect of the Dreadnought can be lessened by walking it across the battlefield as fast as possible to make sure that if fire frenzy occur then it will be a blessing rather than a plague and that also means that early on you’ll have to manage your Dreadnought LoS.
The different ways to equip him is what makes it so versatile and will determine the way that you will use it.
- The Infantry killer is usually equipped with a twin-linked heavy-bolter and a close combat weapon, it's a straight forward version of the Dreadnought, you make him advance until he gets in close combat with the infantry unit you choose while he blast his way through the battlefield. He can also be used to protect an objective against enemy infantry or a flank against a charge. He makes a great counter charge unit too.
- The Light tank buster is equipped either with a plasma cannon or a twin-linked autocannon, this variant is also useful to target infantry as it have a good rate of fire and the plasma template will be able to fry massed infantry without too much trouble. His primary target will be armoured transports such as rhino's or chimera's.
-The heavy tank destroyer is equipped with a twin-linked lascannon or a multi-melta. This version of the Dreadnought packs a lot of punch and if everything goes well it should be able to punch through the toughest armour. It's a great way to add a lascannon that almost never miss to your army if you need more fire power.
- The close combat Dreadnought is equipped with 2 close combat weapons that give him many attacks, with it you can easily peel open any tank, even the toughest ones and his good strenght will ensure that you will have no trouble taking down tough opponent. Its use is straight forward as you charge as fast as possible into enemy positions to wreck havoc. This variant is more powerful when used in pair, they will draw a lot of fire but if they reach the enemy line it will take a lot of punch to take them out.
The Dreadnought use depends on how you equipped them but generally if you’re only taking one of them give him a twin-linked lascannon. It will work great against vehicle and tough targets. They will be able to protect a flank and engage in close combat any unit that reach your lines. Advance it in the middle of the field to lessen the chances he will fire frenzy in your troops.
There are not many upgrades for the Dreadnought, you can give it extra armour, replace its twin-linked bolter by a heavy flamer or replace his close combat arm by a missile launcher. The extra armour is a nice feature and it’s always useful but it’s pricey for what it does and if you want to keep your Dreadnought cost down it’s not a good buy. The heavy flamer is useful and cheap so if you plan to flame your opponent then take it but if you’re near enough to use a flamer then you’re close enough to charge and it’s a better option. The missile launcher add an extra heavy weapon to your Dreadnought, it makes it more dangerous if it fire frenzy but it also gives it more fire power. If you want to seat back in your lines with it and blast your opponent from afar then it is a good option to buy. He won’t be able to perform in close combat but it’s a good trade off.
Since the new codex came out I take 2 Dreadnoughts in every list I take out and they are a serious threat to anyone who ignore them too long. They pop heavy tanks, they perform admirably well in CC and fire frenzy’s never been a trouble to me even if I popped some of my troops with them. They are well worth their points and way too cool to pass on them.
Last edited by Thyr; October 16th, 2007 at 19:05. Reason: Typos and sale
Thanks Reap and Thyr!
excellent posts! An auspicious start!
Can others really match their heroic efforts?
just a quick reminder:
DON'T BE A RETARD! DON'T POST STATS! WE HAVE CODEXES! WE DO NOT THINK YOU ARE CLEVER FOR TELLING US WHAT IT WRITTEN CLEARLY IN OUR RULE BOOK!!
I'll go ahead and grab one of the less used vehicles as I have been tinkering around with it a bit in the last month or so.
The Landraider: I know that some people still shudder to think about these but believe it when I say they have gotten much better since the old dex. In general there are three ways to run the landraider as a dedicated AT platform or as a taxi / late game AT unit or if you are feeling really daring as giant target / battering ram. Either way the LR should be given D. Pos. as the ability to ignore stunned and shaken results is too much of a benefit to ignore, especially since it can still transport troops. The down side of D. Pos. is not nearly as bad on the LR as it is on other tanks due to the fact that all of the LRs weapons are twin linked.
The taxi: This setup starts off much the same as the rhino would though to be honest I put mine right out in the open from turn 1 in order to draw AT fire from everything else. Due to D. Pos. nothing short of destruction is going to keep this thing from rumbling forward next round. Your first turn you want to move this thing up as far as possible and fire off your smoke launchers ( every little bit counts ). From there take your troops to where they need to go. After the passengers disembark the LR should be in a good spot to just pivot and fire until it is dead or the enemy is.
The AT platform: This generally involves sitting the LR in a spot with good lanes of fire and taking pot shots at enemy armor. In general you want to stay as static as possible to use all of your weapons to full advantage.
The Target: This one can be quite fun. It basically starts the same as the taxi does with moving the LR forward as far as possible and popping smoke. After this however it gets fun... just go crazy with it! Tank shock your enemies HQ or elite units, get it behind his lines. LRs have a tendency to unnerve even the most stalwart of opponents. If that huge tank is tearing around the board getting rear shots on your enemies tanks it is going to be number one on his list of things to take down and can even cause your enemy to lose site of any plans that he had in his haste to take it down. The best part is that once again, nothing short of total destruction is going to stop this thing.
Last edited by Ironangel256; October 13th, 2007 at 18:01.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT!
I survived LO Chat thanks to: Karmoon, Rabbit, Process, Tossy and Meish.
One thing I like about the Land Raider ironangel is how well it works with possessed. Certain possessed rolls will render their transport useless, but its impossible to make a land raider useless with the movement abilities. It will just pick up another squad or sit back with lascannon fun.
Check out my Codex: Farmyard Animals here!
If anyone wants any kind of help writing fluff for any kind of GW army just ask.
Chaos bikers are one of the two fast attack choices we have in our army list. The new codex doesn’t bring much change to them and they are used essentially the same way they were before the codex change. They cost about the same point as they did before and they have about the same options, they are also used in the same manner as they were before.
Two minor changes to be noted, firstly they did lose the additional attack they had because of the spikes they had on their but they can now benefit from dual wielding so they get an additional attack when they charge (an almot faire trade off)and secondly the bike resilience is cumulative with any other toughness bonus, like the one given by the Icon of Nurgle.
Chaos Bikers are a fragile unit but they are very fast. Their turbo boost allow them to move really fast so they can be in close combat as soon as the second turn it also make their armour save an invulnerable save for the next turn so it's good to use it as often as possible while moving.
With the addition of a mark the Chaos Bikers can be given some benefits. The different marks are given with an Icon and that Icon can be used to summon units of Daemons or units of Terminators. That leads to some really nice strategies making a squad of Chaos Bikers something to recon with.
- The Icon of Nurgle is one of the most notable mark that you can give to a Chaos Biker because it adds a +1T that now stack with the +1T their bike gives them making them really tough to kill. It is the priciest option too but well worth it to help your Biker survive. Nurgle Bikers also makes a great addition to a Nurgle flavoured army.
- The Icon of Khorne gives +1 attack to the Chaos Bikers and that’s really good if their primary job is to charge into close combat as fast as possible.
- The Icon of Slaanesh gives a +1 to the Chaos Bikers initiative and that’s really useful in close combat, allowing them to hit before most units they will encounter. The Icon is cheap enough that it’s a good buy
- The Icon of Tzeentch give an invulnerable save to the bikers which is not a bad add, but with the invulnerable save they get when they turbo boost it will serve them in close combat only and since the Icon is the second most pricey it’s not a good buy.
- Also the last but not the least the Chaos Glory Icon is a good buy to insure that the Chaos Bikers never fall back even if outnumbered. It’s a must if you don’t take any other Icons.
The weapon options you can give to your Chaos Bikers are the same as before, a plasma gun, a meltagun or a flamer. I’m not a fan of the plasma gun because a Chaos Bikers is really pricey and to take a chance to fry it while shooting is a risk I don’t like to take, also it’s not an assault weapon and Chaos Bikers are quite good in assault with their reach. Meltaguns are not cheap and their cost increased in the new codex, but they will give you the ability to burn holes in tanks at close range and inflict serious wounds in an enemy unit before you charge it, it is by far the best choice for a Chaos Bike squad. The flamer is a good buy too but it won’t be as good against units with good armour save and a good toughness like Space Marines. They are great against horde armies though so don’t discard them completely and since they are really cheap they will help keep your Chaos Bike squad cost down.
There are a number of popular strategies that a lot of people on this web site use and here are some of the popular variant used.
- The basic setup consists of between 5-6 Chaos Bikers with a Biker Champions. 2 of them will be equipped with special weapons, preferably some meltaguns and the Champion will either be equipped with a power fist or a power weapon. Both of those CC weapons are good but the power fist cost a lot more than it’s older version so if you can to keep the price of the squad down you should opt for 2 flamers and a power weapon, if you want to make that squad really effective against everything you will encounter, give them 2 meltaguns and a power fist. More Chaos Bikers than 6 is not better than the basic squad because it’s such a pricey unit that it will add to the overall cost of your army really fast, you’re better off with 2 squads of 5 than with one squad of 9-10. The Chaos Glory Icon is a good buy for them but the Icon of Slaanesh with a Champion with a power weapon is better for this squad. They do take the Icon of Khorne really well too adding a lot more attacks.
- The tank hunter squad consist of 3 Chaos Bikers with 2 meltaguns and a Biker Champion with a power fist. They will do their job rapidly and efficiently but they might never get there since they are only 3. The Chaos Glory Icon is a must on them so they won't run at their first casualty. They are used to hit weak spots (like the rear of a tank) and are quite good at it.
- The infantry heavy weapon squad hunter Chaos Biker squad consist of 4 basic Chaos Bikers with no options. They are used to flank the enemy positions using cover and turbo boost and so they can engage weak CC units loaded with heavy weapons. The Icon of Slaanesh is almost a must with them so they will strike first and drop enemy models before they can strike back having a chance at whipping a whole squad in one shot with their charge.
- The Daemon/Terminator bombing is generally done with a small cheap squad of Chaos Bikers with an Icon or a personal Icon on the Biker Champion. That strategy gives you the chance to deliver a deadly unit in the heart of the enemy lines and can be devastating.
- The suicide squad is composed of 2 squads of 3 plain Chaos Bikers charging straight ahead in the center of the battlefield. Their mission is to engage anything they have a chance to kill. 2 small squad of pure speed without anything special. Their job is to die will taking as much fire as possible, they are on a suicide mission that will help the rest of your army perform the way it's supposed to.
The Chaos Bikers squad is a great fast attack unit that can take on many roles, but they will almost always fight their battle into enemy territory. To make them survive the length of the battle is always a challenge since they can be really annoying to anything that’s armoured or anything that’s weak in CC. They are best used to strike at a weak spot in your opponent enemy lines. Personally I use the tank hunter squad with some good success, but since they cost as much as terminators they find their place in my lists only in 1500 pts games and higher.
Last edited by Thyr; October 14th, 2007 at 23:40. Reason: Changed a rule... thx for pointing it out guys.
Bikers lost the extra base attack in their profile but now can receive the attack bonus for wielding two CC weapons due to the fact that they do not require a hand to control the bike. So, in essence nothing has changed...Two minor changes to be noted, firstly they did lose the additional attack they had because of the spikes they had on their bikes so they are nerfed in some way regarding close combat and secondly the bike resilience is cumulative with any other toughness bonus, like the one given by the Icon of Nurgle. I personally don’t think it’s a good trade off, but here it is.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT!
I survived LO Chat thanks to: Karmoon, Rabbit, Process, Tossy and Meish.
I found out another use for the Bikers today .
2 squad of 3 plain Chaos Bikers charging straight ahead in the center of the battlefield. Engage anything they have a chance to kill. 198 pts of pure speed without anything special.
Yes they will die, but they fix their target on their spot and they take the initiative out of a lot of units. It's a suicide mission that help the rest of your army perform the way it's supposed to.
Last edited by Thyr; October 14th, 2007 at 23:38. Reason: Typos