Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I'm wondering about Obliterators a lot those days and I'm still not sure if they are worth it.
With the new codex they lost all their close combat weapons and some of their ranged weaponry (even if they got some new toys) and they cost a little more (not much) in points. Also they are now an heavy support choice so they compete with the Defiler, Predator and Chaos Havoc.
So here it is, for 150 pts here's what I can have:
- 2 Obliterators
- Predator w/ any configuration and some extra (like extra armour)
- 1 Chaos Havoc squad of 6 CSM w/ 3 Missile Launchers.
Obliterator vs Defiler
The defiler seems to me like the obvious choice on this one, first because a Battle Cannon beat any weapon the Obliterators can take and also because the Defiler can become a great CC machine if given the chance. It is like a big Dreadnought that don't lose control.
Obliterators vs Predator
This is the most difficult choice I face in this matter. 4 wounds, 2 heavy weapons vs a high AV and 3 heavy weapons. I believe most weapons will have their chances at taking out my obliterators, a high volume of fire from small weapons will kill them while a high volume of fire from smaller weapons will not kill a Predator. It takes more than bolter fire and heavy bolter fire to blow up a Predator, it takes tank killing weapons with STR 7 and up. Also 3 heavy weapons for the Predator vs 2 heavy weapons for the Obliterators gives some more points in favor of the Predator. So it' going to be the Predator on this one for me.
Obliterators vs Chaos Havoc
Between those two, sadly, the Obliterators have to win. 2 Obliterators mean 2 heavy weapons and 4 wounds with a much better save than a CSM. I know I can have 3 heavy weapon in the Havoc squad but the fact that I can the Obliterators can move each turn, fire and change their weapon every turn beat that.
So my verdict is:
Defiler > Predator > Obliterators > Chaos Havoc
The only time I will take Obliterators over a Predator is when I will field a full infantry force on foot with no tank and no transport, that way I won't have any lone tanks.
Also I realise that the Chaos Havoc squad lost a lot with the increase in points of the Lascannon... no more squad of 8 CSM w/ 2 ML and 2 LC for me, at 230 pts it cost way too much and I can almost have 2 Predators for that price.
I think I will try my Chosen squad with a lone Infiltrating Lascannon in the future tho, it's costley but the Chosen are a nice platform to summon Daemons and Terminators and a well placed Lascannon with a first turn can turn a game around from the start.
What do you think, are Obliterators worth it over our other Heavy Support choices?
Comparing two oblits (two heavy weapons) to a predator makes me wonder what you think of the saves. The armor save for an Oblit is...well, its just awesome, and the invulnerable save, although its as bad as it gets, is still an invuln save.
I have 1 Oblit now, and I really think getting 2 more will be better than my Laz/HB pred. Deepstriking the Oblitz to midfield, off of my Chosen or Bikers, gves the benefit of not having to walk them thru enemy lines, tho they miss at least 1 round of fighting, they also don't get shot up.
I like the Defilers much better than the Oblitz, but I am stuck on the pred vs. Oblit too. How many points does an extra heavy slot on the FoC cost? :-)
I disagree that obliterators are better than any of the other choices you listed. I have them at the bottom of the totem pole for a few reasons:
Havocs are still obviously the number one choice when you want effective and resilient antitank power. You can have up to four heavy wpns in a 10 man squad if you park that squad in some cover you then have the same invulnerable save as an oblit but have 6 bodies that can soak up wounds before you lose antitank effectivness. In your example all you need is to laz shots to kill 2 oblits where as all you would lose is 2 marines in a havoc squad.
Defilers are just great all around platforms in the new dex. Maybe because I'm biased by why wouldn't you take a defiler? Yes all you need is one shot to kill it but it has the battlecannon and 5 attacks in cc. IMO its always better to have the bigger pie plate and yes you lose an ap with the cannon over the plasma cannon but a better chance of killing more models.
Predator is the iffy one that can go either way, Both seem to be just as effective in anti tank(if talking about the AC, laz sponsons version) its just as you said you could potentially drop an obliterator very easialy with heavy bolters now that they are easier to wound.
Personally I think its just preference as to what you enjoy/works for you, but I think the majority of people still think that hands down havocs are still the best way to go for anti tank.
My experience my obliterators are the best heavy I've used so far. 2+ armor save and weapon choice. If you already have the models playtest them. If not, my vote is for the obliterators.
Point for point, the las sponsons predator will typically outlast any of the other options, if you're looking for a tank buster with staying power. It's not that hard to kill the 3 red shirts in the havoc squad, and then start grinding into the expensive autocannons. As far as the oblits go, their fragility towards the instant kill, coupled with their lack of shell rounds, makes them far less effective in 4th edition; still a good choice though. If, for example, I have the option of firing a couple of lascanons at a predator or a 2 man oblit squad, I usually go for the oblits. They're a safer bet for getting the kills.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
I agree with Rabbit here for the most part though I rate the defiler and predator at about equal as they are for different roles imo, anti infantry and anti tank respectively.
I would put mine in this order:
Pred / defiler > Havocs < Oblits
Havocs are my heavy support of choice for foot slogging forces.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT!
I survived LO Chat thanks to: Karmoon, Rabbit, Process, Tossy and Meish.
It's all swings and round abouts isn't it?
You have a large mob of necron boyos in front of you? You want a defiler/vindicator
You have a landraider with invincible librarians inside? You want obliterators.
They're all great choices, there are no bad choices. It's entirely dependant upon:
1. Which one you like
2. Which one you're good with.
For this reason, I personally am still VERY fond of my havocs and obliterators.
This doesn't take anything away from Predators or the rest. It simply means that I can't use them to their maximum potential.
Regardless of our overall strength.. one thing about the new chaos codex is that almost everything is workable.
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric
The Obliterators are not that good for me because to me, they are like Terminators with more wounds and a choice of heavy weaponry and my Terminators tend to die a lot when they face basic troops fire even with their incredible save. Also they are subject to instant death meaning they might not benefit from their multi-wounds.
It's when I think about a shooting match between Obliterators and their Heavy Support counter part that I'm getting mixed up.
Think about this, 3 squads of 2 Obliterators facing 2 Predators w/ AC turret and LC sponsons and a Defiler. They cost about the same and it's 6 Lascannons for the Obliterator side against 4 LC, 2 AC, 1 BC and 1 RAC on the other side.
It's probable that a single Predator won't be able to kill 2 Obliterators each and where the Defiler BC might miss it's shot (scattering to far) but it's really probable that 6 Obliterators will be able to blow up 3 vehicules because they have more shots against a smaller number.
So overall I think I agree that it depends on who you face and what kind of army he brings on the table... But still the Obliterators seems to be best employed when the circumstance where they will prevail arise and in every battle.
Just to see what people think, what setup is best against a mechanised Tau or a mechanised Eldar army? The 6 Obliterators configuration, the Defiler / Predators setup or the old Chaos Havoc squads with 2 ML & 1 LC each?
i like oblits. the plasma cannon is now an option and its an option i like.
my pred gets pasted early and often. heck even the vidicator gets more fire power from people than i thought it would.
every defiler i have seen also draws a ton of fire early and often. actually even more since it can fleet and be given extra close combat attacks.
i like havocs but for a nice squad i can get 3 oblits.
my choice is also about getting models painted and on the table. 3 oblits take less time than6 to 8 marines for me or painting and assembling the defiler or a pred. i loath making and painting vehicles.
Spambot kill tally. . .337