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So I was bored today and I simulated an epic battle.
Our Tzeentch DP with Warptime and then Warptime & Gift of Chaos
A Hive Tyrant with all the nice upgrades.
So here were the results with just the warptime DP:
Typical amount of wounds left for DP: 1W
Typical amount of wounds left for Tyr.: ~2.5
Typical amount of saves with the 4+: 27 out of 68 wounds so, poor rolling... 39% chance
Now with Gift of Chaos & Warptime:
Typical amount of wounds left for DP: ~2.4
Typical amount of wounds left for Tyr.: ~1.6
Times Gift of Chaos worked: 3
Typical amount of saves with the 4+: 25 out of 53 so, decent rolling... 47% chance
Typical turn length of battle: 2
Total Wins vs Losses in 24 matches: 5:3
( I think this is a bit skewed since I rolled like crap for the DP and well for the Tyr. on the first experiment. Then rolled average for the Tyr. but pretty well for the DP in experiment 2)
Conclusion: Although it is a bad idea to throw this DP against a Tyr. it still can be hilarious if you kill it, or turn it into a spawn. I would recommend weakening it a bit before rushing into c.c. Your saving grace is his poor rolling. If he hits... ugh... because he can get 5 Atks and it's easy to wound on a 3+. So... never assault a Tyr. at full wounds.
On another note, I personally think vs. a Carnifex our DP could kick its sorry arse with a little bit of luck. Those 2+ to wound can be brutal.
All in all it shows us once again that a Tzeentch DP can be one badass.
what exactly did the Tyant have?
The Tyrant had the following:
1) toxin sacs
2) adrenal (i)
4) acid maw
5) warp field
6) 2 x scything talons
Now one thing my friend said I didn't include is the: implant attack, ability. However, I have never seen him use this nor was I aware of it.
Damnit... I just realized that my friend cannot have both the +1 Init. AND +1 WS. He has to choose one of the two. That also changes things a bit. He would be hitting on 4+ while the DP would be hitting on 3+ instead of 4+.
I'm going to ask people their opinion. Have you seen more tyrants with +1 WS OR +1 init? Because I'm going to redo the simulation upon YOUR choice. ( only posted opinions that are posted today will count )
-- People should know the rules. Assume they have all the codexes and know what they're talking about - Karmoon
Last edited by Karmoon; November 11th, 2007 at 17:51.
you can take both adrenal upgrades. That's not a problem
You can only take one mouth related upgrade - so you have to choose between implant, acid, and bio plasma.
From all the upgrades, the Hive Tyrant will be costing a fair amount more than the DP,.. so the fact that he can win 50% of the time isn't bad at all.
Additionally, the Tyrant provides vital synapse to niddles, whereas the daemon prince is 'just' a killing machine.
A good study Inlukasha
Could you point me to a page where it says he can't have the implant attack with the acid maw? Because the next simulation will be vs. a Carnifex and I don't see any restrictions on his data sheet either.
Implant attack isn't a mouth upgrade, so can indeed be combined with Bio-plasma or Acid Maw.
Really, it depends on the creature. Hive Tyrants, for instance, can't combine Bio-plasma and Acid Maw. But Carnifexes can. Different models have different rules. A general rule of thumb is "One tail weapon, one mouth weapon, one back weapon."
If there is no '*' their list of unit upgrades, chances are there's nothing restricting them from combining the upgrades.