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First off I believe this to be the best forum on the internet for advice on Warhammer. That said I have some problems with the dominate attitudes of writers here (especially on the Chaos Forum) . Not that the ”dominate writers” here are not worth their merit. There are many great troop organization and tactics that are shared here by experienced players. My problem is (this is not an “attack”) that most of the “dominate writers” proclaim that there are troop choices and organizations that should NOT be taken even though I have witnessed some of these to be very successful. Have they actually attempted to field these troop choices, troop organizations and tactics, or is it all Math-Hammer?
This thread is basically for all of the “outsiders” to post about their successes with the “unpopular” army organizational choices and the tactics involved with Chaos.
Please do not post entire lists, but explain the basics of the army composition and how it works.
I'd agree that in many cases (not all, but many) players are quick to dismiss certain unit choices before they given them a fair chance. Noise Marines for example, aren't a terribly popular choice, but I personally think they have excellent potential.
I'll be watching this thread with interest.
Note - It's perfectly acceptable for members to disagree with one another in this thread, but I must ask that any extended debates be taken to PM - this thread is for general discussion of the use of the "bad" units in the Chaos army and going into a pages long debate about a particular unit will likely derail the topic.
Thanks for that addendum.
First, let me just start by thanking you for the compliment. Little things like that go a long ways with me.
I'd just like to start by responding to a particular line -
Another thing to remember is that the Chaos Codex hasn't been out for very long, all things considered. There's still tons of play testing to be done. It's quite likely that in a year from now, many people's opinions will have changed drastically.
But of course, that doesn't mean we can't get a good head start on it now, right? I'll admit that I was one of the malefactors who believed Noise Marines to be worth nothing more than the shelf space they inhabited. After play testing them a couple of times, I'm quickly starting to see the merit of having some Sonic Blasters in an army.
*cough spawn cough*
Hey now! They may be a little expensive but that blastmaster really interests me.... if only I could find the pts somewhere to put it.
The 'Cliff Notes' of the generally disparaged units is;
Dreads - now they are elite and more uncontrollable
Spawn - no armor or too expensive, choose whatever annoys you more...
Posessed - too random. Can be awesome or useless.
Oblits - Got nerfed. (but they were too good in the old codex, so we all knew it was coming...)
OK, list complete.
I personally love the new codex, because it was made to sell more Chaos, and in turn got us a bunch of incredible new sprues! The Chaos Termies and Lord are wonderful! The basic CSM squad has been greatly improved, and the Possesed sprue is simply the most amazing 'CSM customization and accessory sprue' made.
I'm waiting for the plastic Juggernaught - the preview pics look amazing.
Great thread topic and good intro.
I was one of those chaos players (like Cal) who initially was very disappointed with noise marines. However, after a little playtesting, they're actually more feasible in 4th edition, owing largely to the price hike required to effectively fill our other troop squads. The 8 man noise marine squad with sonic blasters has shown tremendous potential in my preliminary tests. In fact, of all the cult marks I'm actually using Slaanesh more than the others. A single 8 man sonic blaster squad can dole out great quantities of troop killing firepower, that in the right scenario can even rival Tzeentch marines for MEQ killing. Sonic noise marines also work fairly well as an assault squad against non-c.c. units, as they charge in with 16 shots and then receive 3 attacks each at a 5 init. Of course, they don't stand up to genestealers or hidden fist marines squads, but as a secondary role, the noise marines do pretty well in c.c..
Karmoon and Ironangel (I believe) have made good arguments for including a blastmaster in the above noise marines units, despite its inflated cost.
Overall, our troop choices are all very solid. The only two options that remain in a bit of a funk are possessed and spawn. Even bikes have their selling points.
Last edited by Rabbit; November 13th, 2007 at 08:22.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
I hear where you are coming from... I have been browsing LO for quite a long time and I feel it is the best warhammer forum.... I tend to get into and then out of warhammer as I'm not a hardcore gamer as such.... but I usually always have an army in the works painting wise and love the feedback and advise i've gotten over the years from this forum... I love making armylists and thinking up unique stategies, but i'm the guy who usually wins the best painted army at the rtt's ...I have noticed a change in the tone and attitude of the forum lately...I wrote a post about 20 man squads, it was my second time doing so, i revisited it for the new dex.... One armylist that I made had 10 man plas/las squads which I may add have been kicking butt for me lately... basically as you said, several of the dominant posters were quick to point out the bad points of the tactics and case closed...that doesn't make me wanna post more or add my opinions... anyway rant over...
my outside the box ideas....
use 20 man CSM squads w/icons,
possessed(FEARLESS/INV save)are a great tarpit unit and similar in cost to old raptors,
10 man CSM squads with no AC las/plas,
Icon of Tseench,
oblits i love deepstriking them next to icons and unleashing plasma doom,
lets see anything else I use that no one else on here will touch with a ten foot pole?
At my local gaming club, people are hunting for larger point games. Both regular games and Apocalypse. So i'm considering taking out some of my old units;
8 Possessed of Khorne
8 Khorne Bikers w Power Fist Champ
Theese are quite expensive units, but i can imagine some pain dished out with all those attacks. The bikers have very good mobility (duh!), and the possessed have some survivability with their inv save and Fearless. Maybe a Rhino for them would be a good idea too. Even without a good roll on their table, it's still alot of S5 attacks!
To further add to this thread, this is the time to really try out those point sinkers and under powered units. Apocalypse games are meant for you to bring everything you got to the table, so experiment with it and have fun!
Apply the same philosophy to a regular game, and improve your playing skills and your experience.
"And that, my liege, is how we know the earth to be banana-shaped"
I am sure that a lot of this angst is probably being pointed in my general direction though to be honest of all of the choices in the dex the only two that I do not use are posessed and spawn. Even then I do use spawn through using gift of chaos.
Just as Rabbit said above, I was one of those that dismissed noise marines early and have recently found them to be my favorite troop choice hands down. There are always going to be a few units that seem to come out of nowhere with every new dex ( the heavy flamer for termis for example).
The bottom line is that there will always be combinations that are just more effective than others and when you come to the boards for advice take it as such. We are not telling you what to do but what we would do if it was our list. If you do not like a piece of advice then feel free not to take it, it is a game first and foremost so it should be fun.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT!
I survived LO Chat thanks to: Karmoon, Rabbit, Process, Tossy and Meish.