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The title of the thread says it all really. Are long range anti-tank havocs worthwhile? Do they represent value for points? Do they get the job done? Are those Lascannons/Missile Launchers/Autocannons the way forward?
Let's look at the pro's;
1) Long range means they don't have to go anywhere near the enemy to hurt them.
2) Long range means they can pound on the enemy from turn one.
3) The enemy can be intimdated from manouvering their vehicles.
4) Missile Launchers and Autocannons can cope with both medium vehicles and horde.
5) As long as you have one ordinary trooper for eavy heavy weapon carrier (and especially if they are in cover) it can be hard for the enemy to neutralise them with shooting.
Let's look at the con's;
1) Lascannons are expensive, especially if the enemy turns up with no vehicles, Missile Launchers and Autocannons can struggle against AV13 and AV14.
2) Havocs need LoS to be effective and without it they may have to spend a valuable turn re-positioning and so not firing.
3) They will most probably get wiped in a fight as they are very unlikely to have an aspiring champion with PW/PF to help win the fight.
4) They are best when static and so as your army surges towards the enemy you have fewer bodies at the fornt with which to asault enemy positions.
5) Havocs need LoS to be effective which means that the enemy has LoS to fire straight back at them.
So they have some good points and some bad points. Primarily I'm looking at their use in a pure infantry force but if you use them alongside vehicles in your army or if you don't use them because you have vehicles for long range anti-tank then please comment as well. So just let us know if you think long range anti-tank havocs are worthwhile.
Last edited by Inquisitor Soulflayer; December 18th, 2007 at 00:40.
Here's my position - they're effective but only if they aren't alone. Although this doesn't really apply to 1,000 point games or lower, mainly 1,500+.
One squad of havocs can be easily avoided/neutralized through creative use of cover, etc. There's an article in an old white dwarf on tactics where an empty transport plops itself down in front of a squad of havocs, effectively shutting them out of the game for 2 turns. (Actually, I think they were devastators, but they're the same thing).
Pairing off 2 squads of havocs allows them to threaten more area and greatly eliminates your opponents ability to avoid them and the necessity of re-positioning them. Pairing off havocs and obliterators works very well, because there's the added bonus of obliterators being able to move and fire.
I also think the hammer/anvil strategy works well - pair a squad of havocs off with a squad of meltagun totting raptors or bikes. Meltaguns are probably the best way to deal with AV 14/13.
I think lascannons on Havocs are a bad idea. They are expensive and even a mighty lascannon needs to get lucky to take out AV 14 - a meltagun, not so much. Missile launchers are nice for anti-MEQ, anti-(light) vehicle and anti-horde.
Havocs have the most staying power of all our Heavy Support choices, but tend to be the most expensive option (except argubly Obliterators/Land Raiders).
I guess the main point is, one squad of anti-tank havocs is not going to be effective - they need to work with other elements.
As an Alpha Legion player, I still make extensive use of havocs, and they're still great.
Ultra grit is excellent for close encounters, so the enemy can't shut them up easily with just gaunts or scarabs.
I agree about the lascannon being a bit too expensive to be comfortable.
Also about the cheap price of the melta - which has been reduced since the last codex.
I always use havocs AND obliterators to work in tandem.
The havocs can command over a large part of the playing field, and any angles they can't deal with can be dealt with by deepstriking obliterators or fast moving raptors.
I'd still also recommend autocannons. Despite not having tank hunters anymore, the rate of fire and general good stats still spells troubles for many many foe and vehicles.
As an IW player I still make full use of the havocs as they can be sat somewhere nice in a corner and take care of threats that our normal troops can't, with having to take 10 man in a sqaud before getting your heavy it's nott worth taking anti-tank in your troop choices, the havocs more than make up for ths, especially if used in tandem with other long-range units to create firinglanes in which the foe has to go if he wants to reach you.
LR Havocs are still very important. If your opponent will take plenty of Armour 2/3+, T5+ or Vehicles, you need heavy firepower to whittle 'em down.
This is especially so in Apocalypse games. I've already met too many IG Tank Companies, and Baneblades.
As Karmoon said, Havocs + Obliterators makes for a good team, providing you with a dangerous fire base.
Although Lascannons are expensive, they're still the only really good LR weapon for cracking open AV14. As Obliterators have LCs built in, they have this role covered. However, I still field a unit of 8 Havocs as well, with 2 MLs and 2 LCs, or of 5 Havocs with 2 LCs.
Grimmtu points out "One squad of havocs can be easily avoided/neutralized through creative use of cover, etc. There's an article in an old white dwarf on tactics where an empty transport plops itself down in front of a squad of havocs, effectively shutting them out of the game for 2 turns. (Actually, I think they were devastators, but they're the same thing). This is why Obliterators are still so good, and why you need more than one unit of LR fire support.
I was wonderin about havocs 2, and my conclusion was to not just reli on them hav a preditor or some thin aswell just to help a tad to DESTROY THE OPPOSITION!!!
Extreme Ironing, Live life to the limits!
If your using havocs, you'd probably be best off using more havocs, or oblits, to support each other. Rather than tanks. PeaceI was wonderin about havocs 2, and my conclusion was to not just reli on them hav a preditor or some thin aswell just to help a tad to DESTROY THE OPPOSITION!!!
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Also, you spot on about infantry needing support from other squads. Remember, each unit is part of an army, NOT an army in it's own right.
That said, I think on occasion vehicles can make good support for infantry. Simply because the weapons which are useful against infantry are often not useful against vehicles, and vise versa.
I'm not sure if this has been said yet, but a number of players have been making use of smaller havocs as well as the traditional 8 man 4 heavy squads.
6 havocs w/ 3 ML or AC
Cheap and still very effective.
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