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I Have a couple of questions for the community regarding small point games and specifically the fearsome greenskins!
Whats your experience fighting orks in the new codex? and have you fought them at low points levels?
My partner has recently started playing and she loves orks so we have been play testing them alot before she buys her first batch of models to make sure she like thier style.
I dont belive im a bad player, just ok, however my novice partner with lists picked of models, 'she likes', at 500points, is continualy making life very hard for me!
Ive tried 2 variations of lists that i belive to be quite competative against most armys at this points limit.
NOTE: i have posted this in the general area to discuss orks and how they play from a chaos point of view in general, Unless you have a specific concern regarding the lists i would like to refrain from discussing them right now and keep this as a discussion about the new Orks, thier strength in low and high point games and tactics chaos can employ against them. cheers
#1 (sorcerer got insta killed a little to easy for my liking)
Sorcerer, Mos, Lash
6 CSM, 1 Plasma
6 CSM, 1 Plasma
7 havocs, 3 ML
Daemon Prince, Mos, Lash, wings
5 CSM, 1 Plasma
5 CSM, 1 Plasma
7 havocs, 3 ML
Now, ive been honing my tatics and feel im getting the maximum out of my small fire squads, but maybe its me, or maybe those new greenskins are just really powerful at this level?
She is using one of the Shoc attack guns on a Big Mek, 2 squads of boys with nob power klaws, and bikes or deffkopters.
I keep my small infantry squads out of los to the big mek and use them to deal with infantry as it comes in. I take out the bikes or kopters or transport with the havocs and make a be-line for the big mek with my daemon prince with the aim of getting it out of play turn3 - id love to shoot it but tht damn IC rule... - (all the while stopping one of her boys squads getting to my infantry with the lash).
It always seems to go to plan, however the sheer numbers of orks usually whittle me down so that by the end she has a marginal victory or a draw,
i dont want to go on-any further with specifics, i have outlined my plight!
What are other people experiencing in similar situations?
Any feedback is greatfully appreciated!
The new Orks are really fun to play and play against. In low point games, the Big Mech with Shoc, and units of Boyz play pretty straight forward. Blast away and get lucky, then swamp them with your boyz and let your Nob kill everything. The vast number of attacks even the boyz get on the charge is also fun to roll, and will overwhelm even MEQ. ( my math says that a charging Ork kills 1/3 of a Marine )
You need to take away the two things that Boyz have, the Ork charge kill rate ( they will charge you ) and kill the nob first....
Chaos has two things that do that for us!
Plague Marines are optimal anti-boyz MEQ. Their higher toughness, plague grenades, and FnP reduce a charging Orks kill rate to 1/12 kill per boy, and their normal kill rate to 1/24 kills per boy! wow! Combined with fearless, the PMs will win in the end.
The kill the Nob, we have Lash!
I know, I know... the lash doesn't cause wounds... but the "Lash Conga Line (of Doom !)" is just made for picking out that annoying unit champion. Lash the ork boys, and arrange the Nob to be the model closest to you, and special weapon models in a line two inches apart streaming away from you, and then the boyz clustered around at least more than 12 inches from your rapid fire unit. Like this:
B B B B B
B B B B B B B Nob Your Shooty unit
B B B B B
When your shooty unit shoots the only valid targets are the Nob and any special weapon models you want to kill, and because you have to take casualties as to maintain unit coherency the Nob catches all the wounds, followed by the special weapon models.... Without them, boyz aren't really that good....
I have great luck in 500 point games with:
6 plague marines with 2 plasma guns
6 plague marines with 2 plasma guns
1 Demon Prince of Slaneesh with wings and lash.
The conga line of doom is also very useful right before a charge as well. The DP lashes a unit, and charges into the Nob, killing him and finishes off the boyz, in short order.
Last edited by kb10r; January 29th, 2008 at 19:15. Reason: fix speling :)
Plaguemarines will lose as long as that klaw nob is still swinging (looking at about 2 dead marines per turn even if the boyz do nothing), so yah..make sure to kill that nob asap. The only real strategy orks have against a lash is to have the nob as far back in the squad as possible and hope your lash roll is low enough such that you can't single him out like that. If your opponent leaves his nob at the front of the squad as it advances, kill it.
My recommendation: Noise Marines. Shoot them at range, and then you'll still have several attacks in close combat.
Noise Marines would give you lots of dakka back at the orks, although I don't think it would as good a list against a generic opponent. But it would free up a few points for the most awesome template weapon ever: The Doom Siren!
6 NM w/ sonic blasters, AC with DOOM SIREN
6 NM w/ sonic blasters
Prince of Slaanesh with Lash and wings.
Shooty, Shooty and then Lash for the template of DOOM!
Heck, you can even charge after that if you need to.... ( blasters on low setting )
Or back up a turn to keep range... I like it.
shoot, lash them away; walk backwards and shoot, lash away; shoot what's left after lashing into place. Charge if needed.
Although many probably don't like the idea, why not use some flamers? Or perhaps some lesser demons to go in and soften/tie up the guys you don't want near you right then. I would prefer the flamer, but everyone else has great ideas as well.
most important rule is to have fun, not to twin lash everything... that psychic power should be ridden of entirely as it breaches a key rule in unwritten player condition agreement, that is the law never to touch your opponents models, which this power pushes to the very limit of acceptable. Another less blatantly asinine rule is the deceiver's whisper which is more light to the rage center of the opponents brain as it only affects his deployment and doesn't forcibly pull his models out of their position AND let them get charged and put to fine dust.
Originally Posted by swntzu
May I sum up your comments into 2 areas?
Lashing troop formations to provide advantage is unsportsmanlike. The game is about having fun; Lash makes me not have fun.
People touching my models make me mad.
I understand, and can agree in many ways. Lash, at its points cost, seems to be one of the most powerful abilities in the game right now. Is it the sniping that makes my example of using Lash unsportsmanlike or the ability to control the opponent’s models?
Range sniping, where you arrange your own troops so that only a subset of the opponents models in a unit are eligible for casualty removal, combined with line of sight sniping, where you intentionally block line of sight to a unit to restrict the eligible models for casualty removal, have been around for a while. Are these unsportsmanlike?
Kitted out Falcons, Assassins, psychic hoods, Fear of the Darkness, etc, are all really, really, annoying. I was wondering which of these are unsportsmanlike. I would like to declare pretty much everything Eldar have as unsportsmanlike. They should be banned.
I don’t touch other people’s models, unless they say it’s ok, or hand me one to look at. People put too many hours of blood, sweat, and tears into building and painting models for me to touch them. If I use Lash on a unit, the other guy can move the models, I don’t care. I wasn’t advocating malignly manhandling models. But dude… wow… do you let other people touch your dice, or does the magic go away? How do you play scenarios that allow you to control an opponents unit, or model, or even switch sides and play a second round? In the end, it is just a game.
I think a more powerful argument is in even using a Lash Prince in a 500 point game at all. It’s a little over the top. <begin music> I remember a time when it was only acceptable to field given ranges of % of the OOB, <25% HQ, >40% troops, <25% Heavy/Elite/Fast. The though of a Land Raider in a 500 point battle was mocked, when Chaos had a 45 point HQ, when I had Chaos veterans that could get two heavy weapons…. <end music>
In my defense, my first email was a little jaded. I just got out of a “friendly” 500 point tourney, where it was open knowledge that any twisted combination of Force Organization was allowed ,as long as you had 1 HQ and 2 Troops. The Lash worked quite well.
In “real” friendly games, I wouldn’t lash at all, until the assassin showed up, or the Falcon…
A new FAQ for Adapticon has been written to encourage general use and can be found at:
One of its authors is yakface, the owner of dakkadakka.
In it, there is a clarification of the use of the Lash which is reasonable. I will use this going forward. The rest of the FAQ is very helpful and I think is a great guide for any group to adopt.
"Yes, a Battleship can cloak"
Drop the plasma and take a missle launcher. Change one unit of marines into berzerkers and put them into a rhino. Loose the psyker and take a lord and put him with your marines. Loose the havoks and take a pred(auto/las.)
For a few rules in there, IE: Chaos Terminators firing rapid fire weapons and Lash of submission, thats not so much of a FAQ on rules but more of a "rules we made up so things worked how we want them to". I'd prefer to use the actual rules then something someone else had made up to make themselves happy.