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View Poll Results: What Happened to the Cults?

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66. You may not vote on this poll
  • Cult Troops are better than they were before.

    28 42.42%
  • Cult Troops are worse than they were before.

    2 3.03%
  • Some got better, some got worse.

    34 51.52%
  • Overall, they are about as good as they were before.

    2 3.03%
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Thread: Cult Troops

  1. #1
    Festo Diata TwoHats's Avatar
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    Cult Troops

    Did Cult Troops get better, worse, or stay the same with the release of the new Codex? Did some get better while some worse? Post your opinion, specifically relating to Cult Troops you use in your armies.

    2H - LEGIO HYDRA

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  3. #2
    King of the Burning Sands Backdraft005's Avatar
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    Tzeentch without a doubt got better, so did Nurgle. Khorne is about the same but Slannesh without doubt got worse. Bonus blows and the weaponary still over expensive.

  4. #3
    Topic Creator Deluxe Mr_Wayne's Avatar
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    The Berzerkers are very much better now than they were before. The removal of Bloodfrenzy is great. With a bit of skill, the opponent could have the Zerkers chase a drone around the table for ages. I would like to have the Khornate Chainaxes back and some of the Champions special weapons, but overall I feel that it's a good trade and they're more playable.
    They doesnt got their Champions that could take out entire squads on their own, but now the unit matters more. They are still hard asa nails and one of the best CC units in the game - as it should be.
    "The more choices you force the opponent to make, the better the chance for you to capitalize on his mistakes"

  5. #4
    Bloodbowl Hooligan RhYn0's Avatar
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    I voted for some got better some got worse as i only know about berzerkers, in my opinion they got better with the better ws and fc, the only thing i miss is chain axes but u gotta take the rough with the smooth.
    Project Genestealer Cult

    Blood Bowl > You

  6. #5
    One Awesome Dude hotspike18's Avatar
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    I think they did get better, but the point cost is a little more...pricey. Anybody else think that? I feel like we are getting less bang for our buck these days.
    "If you can wait til I get home, then I swear we can make this last."

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    I have mixed feelings about this...

    Khorne. It always irritated me that units like Blood Fangs from the Space Wolves got a berserkers charge, and Khorne BERSERKERS did not. Now they have furios charge; they should have had that to begin with. I like the Weapon skill upgrade, but it's negligable. Still as tough as before and can still put out a decent amount of attacks. I REALLY REALLY miss blood frenzy. The point was to get these guys into H2H and that was a great way to do it. It was the closest thing to fleet that we had.

    Won some, lost some. Should have kept the Frenzy.

    Nurgle. Feel no Pain with high toughness roxxors my soxxors. These are the best attrition troops in the game IMO. There weapon selection however, is absolute crap for that goal. They have no heavy weapon choices, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I won't argue that meltas aren't great, but would have liked to see them with some better range weapons. Blight gernades are still nice for H2H.

    Won most, lost nothing. Should have provided heavy weapon choices.

    Tzeentch. They traded their extra wound for 4+ invulnerable saves... not a bad trade off all things considered. I remember when you needed S5 or more to hurt them at all. These guys just keep changing in really odd ways. Sorceres seriously got hurt with having to make psychic tests now; that was their greatest asset when fighting other armies, especially anti-psyker.

    Won some, lost some. Should have something extra for Sorcerers.

    Slaneesh. Why do I have to pay even more for their standard weaponry when they're already more expensive than normal troops? Still a good shooty squad, but not at that price. Just a wierd combination with the high initiative, probably should have had more H2H items than not. I still can't justify taking a single squad of these guys, but I'll use their icon on other squads.

    Won nothing, lost most. Should be much cheaper with more H2H options.

    As far as "general" feelings, I find it pretty tough to use cult troops to great extents with their point costs. 1-2 small squads at most. With the wonderful improvements to the standard Chaos Space Marine, at the low Icon costs, it's really hard to mathematically justify using cults. Which sucks because I have a great deal of Cult models. But that has always been the problem with Chaos.
    You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

  8. #7
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revelations View Post
    Khorne. It always irritated me that units like Blood Fangs from the Space Wolves got a berserkers charge, and Khorne BERSERKERS did not. Now they have furios charge; they should have had that to begin with. I like the Weapon skill upgrade, but it's negligable. Still as tough as before and can still put out a decent amount of attacks. I REALLY REALLY miss blood frenzy. The point was to get these guys into H2H and that was a great way to do it. It was the closest thing to fleet that we had.
    How is a 5WS negligible? Against MEQ's berzerkers now hit on a 3+. That's incredible, especially when combined with furious charge.

    Blood Frenzy: Don't worry, with 5th edition, they'll effectively have fleet, so long as they don't charge or shoot. This more than makes up for the loss of Blood Frenzy, which is unpredictable and worse, uncontrollable. I think you'll find that the overall movement of berzerkers will increase ;Y

    If we end up getting Cult specific codices, and by the looks of things we will, then perhaps there will be a price reduction in cult marine prices for their respective armies. However, more likely, we'll just see cult marine mechanics placed onto other units besides basic marines- i.e., plague termis, t.s. chosen, etc...
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  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit View Post
    How is a 5WS negligible? Against MEQ's berzerkers now hit on a 3+. That's incredible, especially when combined with furious charge.
    Maybe it's because I rarely get to fight much that doesn't either outlast (Orcs) or outclass (Harlequins) them. It's been a while since I've seen them do much, even with 5Ws. Can't remember for the life of me the last time I got the charge off either...
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit View Post
    Blood Frenzy: Don't worry, with 5th edition, they'll effectively have fleet, so long as they don't charge or shoot. This more than makes up for the loss of Blood Frenzy, which is unpredictable and worse, uncontrollable. I think you'll find that the overall movement of berzerkers will increase ;Y
    It's not effective for Berserkers unless they can charge. The problem with Berserkers is they're among the slowest Assault troops in the game; no fleet, no bikes, no wings, no jump packs, etc. It's probably just me, but the "run" rule in 5th means I will be making it easier for my troops to get charged by the enemy. I've ran a few scenarios, and they usually turn out very badly for the boys in blood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit View Post
    If we end up getting Cult specific codices, and by the looks of things we will, then perhaps there will be a price reduction in cult marine prices for their respective armies. However, more likely, we'll just see cult marine mechanics placed onto other units besides basic marines- i.e., plague termis, t.s. chosen, etc...
    I remember my old Thousand son terminators... hmm... multi-wound Terminies... those were the days. So far in every Chaos Codex update we've been getting price breaks. We're almost there, but we need at least one more slash. (At least you can say that's been going for us)

    It seems more reasonable to purchase Icons of Khorne for other troops; Raptors and Bikes, then buying a squad of Berserkers. To paraphrase...

    GW Employee: Good news guys! Berserkers are getting upgraded!
    Players: Hurra! What cool stuff can we expect?
    GW: Well, first, we've taken away blood frenzy!
    Players: So now they have no boost to movement whatsoever?
    GW: Yes! And then we're giving them furious charge!
    Players: You mean that thing they should have had from the start?
    GW: And then we're giving you guys an extra WS!
    Players: Is that it?
    GW: Don't forget you're also fearless! And have free gernades now!
    Players: So you've brought us up to par?
    GW: No! You're shooting above par, you're great!
    Players: Hey wait a minute... what about our axes?
    GW: Axes? What axes? You never had any axes! You're great!
    Players: So you took some stuff away and gave us what we should hav already had? WTF!
    GW: Like tigers you are... you're great!
    Players: ARe you even listening??!!
    GW: Rawr! Grr!
    You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

  10. #9
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    Revelations, against those opponents, you're right, an increased WS does little.

    Blood Frenzy aside, I'm inclined towards agreeing that 5th edition 'run' won't be of much use for our beloved zerkers, however, for a slightly different reason than you stated. Berzkerkers virtually always require a rhino for advanced movement, in which case, they charge directly out of the transport, or disembark, and then charge the following round. Neither scenario allows for 'run.'
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  11. #10
    Chilli Fueled Heretic danjones87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revelations View Post
    I have mixed feelings about this...

    Khorne. It always irritated me that units like Blood Fangs from the Space Wolves got a berserkers charge, and Khorne BERSERKERS did not. Now they have furios charge; they should have had that to begin with. I like the Weapon skill upgrade, but it's negligable. Still as tough as before and can still put out a decent amount of attacks. I REALLY REALLY miss blood frenzy. The point was to get these guys into H2H and that was a great way to do it. It was the closest thing to fleet that we had.

    Won some, lost some. Should have kept the Frenzy.

    A lot of people moaned that the frenzy was the most stupid thing around. Chasing landspeeders into open ground to get shot apart

    Nurgle. Feel no Pain with high toughness roxxors my soxxors. These are the best attrition troops in the game IMO. There weapon selection however, is absolute crap for that goal. They have no heavy weapon choices, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I won't argue that meltas aren't great, but would have liked to see them with some better range weapons. Blight gernades are still nice for H2H.

    Won most, lost nothing. Should have provided heavy weapon choices.

    Heavy weapons are a no no, if you read the fluff death guard cant take heavy weapons and in the old codex they couldnt either. Plasma guns are the best thing anyway!

    Tzeentch. They traded their extra wound for 4+ invulnerable saves... not a bad trade off all things considered. I remember when you needed S5 or more to hurt them at all. These guys just keep changing in really odd ways. Sorceres seriously got hurt with having to make psychic tests now; that was their greatest asset when fighting other armies, especially anti-psyker.

    Won some, lost some. Should have something extra for Sorcerers.

    Sorcerers got Force weapons, which is a massive boost. Now your hidden champion can smite down the enemy independant character behind is screen of 4++ warriors.

    Slaneesh. Why do I have to pay even more for their standard weaponry when they're already more expensive than normal troops? Still a good shooty squad, but not at that price. Just a wierd combination with the high initiative, probably should have had more H2H items than not. I still can't justify taking a single squad of these guys, but I'll use their icon on other squads.

    Won nothing, lost most. Should be much cheaper with more H2H options.

    What did they loose?I really cant see anything these guys have lost. The cost of doom siren and blastmaster has increased because there stats have got better. Sonic blasters are the same points cost. The normal factory line noise marine is 1 point more due to the fact it now has ultra grit and grenades. They havent gained much, but they sure havent lost anything.

    As far as "general" feelings, I find it pretty tough to use cult troops to great extents with their point costs. 1-2 small squads at most. With the wonderful improvements to the standard Chaos Space Marine, at the low Icon costs, it's really hard to mathematically justify using cults. Which sucks because I have a great deal of Cult models. But that has always been the problem with Chaos.
    Sorry about picking apart your post.

    Dan

    *Edit*
    Just to add, Warp scream got better for noise marines too, no its +1I not -1I to the enemy if they choose to attack you. This means in multiple combats noise marines Higher I could be negated by attacking a different unit.
    Last edited by danjones87; February 12th, 2008 at 13:07.

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