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Raptors & Defiler
Raptors & Obliterators
Raptors & Predator
Terminators & Defiler
Terminators & Obliterators
Terminators & Predator
I’m currently making a chaos army that at the moment is focused around a winged Deamon Prince, two ten man Deathguard squads and one ten man Thousand Sons squad all three are mounted in rhinos and have the standard wargear and powers.
But my problem is choosing their support units and because I haven’t got a lot of cash I can only select one for each role and want to make sure it is the best choice.
So can you help me choose the best unit for each of these roles?
Close combat units
230 - Raptor Squad: 7 Raptors with Icon of Nurgle and 1 Champion with Powerfist.
(Support the Deamon Prince’s advance or the other units, if a ten man squad is necessary I can ditch 1 Death Guard from each of the squads as well as a meltagun)
-- Or –
230 - Terminator Squad: 4 Terminators, 2 with Powerfists 2 with Power Weapons all with combi bolters, Icon of Nurgle and Champion with Powerfist.
(Deep strike where needed and cause havoc, can ditch a meltagun for 2 combi Meltas)
Long Range Support
150 - Defiler: Battle Cannon, Reaper Auto Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Deamonic Possession, Smoke Launchers, Fleet of Foot.
(Support fire while advancing)
-- Or –
150 – 2 Separate Obliterators
(Deep Strike to get the best shots in on side armour)
-- Or –
150 – Predator: Autocannon, 2 Lascannon Sponsons and Deamonic Possession.
(Your standard support role)
Your help is greatly appreciated.
Inquisitor Proiteus, what's the rest of your army look like? Knowing this will help to see where your strengths and weaknesses reside.
EDIT: Or does your current build only consist of the prince and the two cult squads?
Spambot kill tally. . .337
Based on just what you said you had, I went for the raptors and the pred, because it gives you armour and anti armour in the form of a pred (you need at least 4 or no armour) and some more close combat punch, (7 man not nessacary with nurgle), the reason i didn't cose terms is 'cause there slow moving in contrast with the rest of the units and there better at giving fire surport then combat the defiler isnt very good in the new edition and preds are genrally better then oblits (even though there incredble versitile), hope the ideas help,
I said Terminators & Predator, but I think you should change the terminators and predators a bit.
Firstly, I would ditch Daemonic Possession on the predator - it's a personal preference, but I like to keep the higher ballistic skill and risk not firing. However, I field almost twice as many vehicles in a similar point game so it's not quite such a big deal.
As for the terminators, I would ditch the Icon and the Champion w/ the Fist. I know it's a Nurgle themed list, but the Icon is way too expensive and won't do a heck of a lot.
Use all your extra points to add another terminator and give a bunch of combi-plasmas or combi-meltas to your terminators.
When fielding expensive marines, such as plaguers or T.S., armies tend to fall weak against hordes, due to the shortage of bolters. The raptors' bolt pistol is too limiting a range for helping out much. You want some balance to even the scale, as the build is already heavy on 'elite' marines. I'd recommend chosen and a predator, if chosen were an option, but sense they're not, terminators are the next best thing. While they certainly are expensive, at the same time, their shock value greatly helps and can turn the tides of a skirmish upon their arrival.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
i chose the raptors definitely, as for the second squad im not really sure. Some may argue fast attack does not fit into the death guard fluff, but i think raptors are like vultures, swooping down on the dead and dying to finish them off. If that doesnt fit in with a plague army, i dont know what does.
As for heavy support, id really like you to consider havocs, there are death guard havoc models you can buy, so they are definitely in the fluff, you can bulk up their squad to have less of a chance of having your heavy weapon holders hit(whereas with an oblit , if he gets aimed at, say goodbye). Defiler was my choice out of the things you picked, you can move and shoot the big cannon, they have decent armor, and if they manage to live to get into CC, they are really nice.
Here whats in the army so far hope it gives you a clearer idea on what to suggest...
160 - Deamon Prince Sharazad: Wings, Mark of Nurgle and Doombolt.
(Basic Prince tactics use cover to hide him from heavy weapons and close in for the kill and likely draw fire away from the rhinos)
290 - Darkmaker Rokhan: Champion with Powerfist, 9 Undead (Death Guard) Marines, 2 Melta Guns, 7 with Boltguns all with close combat weapon, bolt pistol, Krak and Frag Grenades, Fearless and Feel No Pain!
50 - Raban’s Deathwagon (Rhino): Extra Armour.
300 - Darkmaker Zaceria: Champion with Powerfist, 9 Undead (Death Guard) Marines, 2 Plasma Guns, 7 with Boltguns all with close combat weapon, bolt pistol, Krak and Frag Grenades, Fearless and Feel No Pain!
50 - Zaceria’s Deathwagon (Rhino): Extra Armour.
(These guys drive forward as much as possible using available cover and my deamon prince as a distraction before opening up on the enemy
219 - Darkmaker Tru’kai: Champion Sorcerer with Force Weapon, doombolt and Bolt Pistol, 9 Death Spirits (Thousand Sons) all with Mark Of Tzeentch, Inferno Bolts, Sorcerer Commands, Slow and Purposeful and Fearless!
50 - Tru’kai’s Deathwagon (Rhino): Extra Armour.
(This unit’s role is to support the two Death Guard units)
That's a good base for your army. With three rhinos carrying such expensive cargo, a predator or defiler is virtually mandatory, as either forces your opponent to choose between shooting the rhinos or shooting a solid tank buster. Without predators and/or defilers, your transports become the obvious target for enemy tank busters. Hence, your troops will get stranded halfway to the enemy lines. I'm still in favor of the predators, as you need long range tank busting.
Also, what point value are you playing? If it's less than 2000, then I'd advise that you decrease your squad sizes in your plague and T.S. marines to eight. This will save needed points, and eight is sufficient.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
I went with the Raptors / Obliterators choice.
I use a Defiler in every game I play and 2 Predators (standard setup) and what I discovered really early it's that every army you will play against have at least 2 options to blow up AV14 and down. One shot is all it takes to take out a Predator or a Defiler, that's a lot of points and fire support that can go to hell as soon as turn one. So in your situation I would go with 2 Obliterators. They are versatile, they are tough, they have an invul. save and they have 2 wounds each. Later you can add two more Obliterators to your army (for a total of 4) and you will have some strong fire support for your army. You can deploy them at the start or deep strike them for a nasty surprise.
Then I went with the raptors because I find the Terminators really situational. When they deep strike they are sitting ducks for one turn and since you will send them in the thick of it most of the time they tend to die rather quickly. That's what my Terminator do and that's what most of the Terminators (Space Marines mostly) I face do too. They appear, they shoot, they stay where they are and they have to absorb everything that come their way (including charging units since they can't charge on the turn they arrive). Since you want a CC unit, the Terminators won't do what you want them to do and their save won't save them against heavy weaponry or a high volume of fire / CC attacks.
Raptors on the other end are really mobile and they are quite good in CC. It's a very good fast attack choice and well played they perform admirably, especially with 2 meltaguns and a Champion with Lightning Claws. Also your Raptors could follow your Daemon Prince for some added punch, the combination of those 2 units is a devastating one. People will ignore your Raptors most of the time to target your Daemon Prince (who can take some punishment before being killed) and if they go the other way around... well they will learn to fear your Daemon Prince and they won't do that mistake twice .
Also, you should consider taking Warptime instead of Doombolt for your Daemon Prince... re-rolling those failed CC attacks and wounds every CC turn is priceless and well worth the investment and you will use it more often than Doombolt since your Deamon Prince will be in CC most of the time.
I don't know if the mark of your Daemon Prince is set in stone but I found that the Tzeentch mark is really useful... a 4+ invul. save is something you might want to have against lascannon shots since your prince will be heavily targetted. Since you already have a Thousand Sons squad it would go really well with your army. Also you can give him 2 powers if he have the Tzeentch mark, so you could have Warptime and Doombolt...
The rest look good even if I prefer my Plague Marines with Meltaguns instead of Plasma Guns since you want them up close and personal most of the time you will be able to shoot and charge with the Meltaguns and it gives you a valid option to bust any kind of tanks.
Hope it helps.
Edit: I agree with Rabbit on the size of your Plague Marine squads, 8 will do the job of 10 without problems and it will save you some points, take 4 more Raptors in their place, that will make a nice fast attack unit (or 2 small ones... your choice).
Last edited by Thyr; March 17th, 2008 at 21:32.
Looks like the majority say for combat raptors, then defiler for firepower but i strongly agree with Rabbit a pred would be a much better coice the a defiler in my opinion, if you don't like raptors by the way termies are my second choice