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An SM player in our group uses this squad in 1500pts:
Assault Squad x10 or so
Librarian - Psych Hood, 2+ Save, Veil (reroll everything), Force Weapon, Jump Pack
Captain (I think) - Lightning Claws, 2+/4+, Jump Pack, 6 attacks on the charge (termie honors)
He joins both ICs to his Assault Squad.
Now, the squad does cost him a ton of points, but it cannot be stopped.
If you Lash, he has the hood. If you manage to shoot them up a bit, the Assault Squad is mostly to absorb wounds anyway. They can get to you from 18" away, so they'll hit your lines on turn 2 or 3 at the latest and then it's over. They simply chop through anything they touch and move on to the next unit. The ICs are hitting at init 5 and with all the power weapon re-rolls they're killing at least 6 marines - not counting what the rest of the assault squad is doing. Much of the time you don't even have guys left in base contact when it comes to your initiative.
The only luck I've ever had against them was when I hit them with two squads of Genestealers in my Nid list, but I have no clue how to handle them with my (new) Chaos army. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Also, I have another question: Can the Librarian use Veil and the Force Weapon in the same turn? What about the Hood with either of those?
Not sure about the hood, but I'm pretty positive that activating a force weapon counts as using a psychic power and therefore is subject to the 1 power per turn limitation.
I can't really help you with the question about Chaos unfortunately, as I play Necrons and Tyranids...sorry
Only 1 psychic power per gameturn unless otherwise noted in the model rules so no veil of time and forceweapon.
Do they have a powerfists in this sqaud otherwise try to get a defiler or dreadnought into cc with them.
Well my choice would be to have a counter-charge unit against this one.
Of course 1 or 2 Dreadnoughts would be quite good too to tie them up in close combat, if they don't have meltabombs in the squad then they won't be able to blow them up easily but it can be hard to put them in melee with such a squad.
I would employ 1 fast units of Raptors with 2 Daemon Prince with wings to lead them. Since your opponent spend at least 500 pts on this single unit you can oppose them at least that many points.
Daemon Prince (140 pts)
Daemon Prince (140 pts)
Wings, Mark of Slaanesh
Raptor squad (245 pts)
9 Raptors, 2 Meltaguns
1 Champion with a Power Fist.
Icon of Slaanesh.
The Daemon Princes are your best bet, they are tough, fast and they have 4 wounds with an invulnerable save. With the mark of Slaanesh they start at Ini 6. The trick is to put the 2 Daemon Princes in base to base contact with one of his character so they can hit him directly instead of hitting the squad. The power fist should also do some casualties since his characters are not immune to instant death.
Time it right and you should go through his unit quite rapidly. You could, with such a unit, at least take out all the Assault Marines in one turn.
As others have said, if there are no power fists, then our walkers will demolish this squad. It's incredibly economic as well, considering the price ratio.
Depending on your set up, try lobing some rapid firing plasma rounds at them. You can take a 5 man terminator squad with 5 combi-plasmas. Deep strike them off an icon, and you should take down 5.5 kills. This will greatly reduce the red shirts, at which point, you can charge them with just about anything. I'd recommend Khornate raptors, since they have a high attack value and should manage a c.c. skirmish quite easily with their movement.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
I just thought about using a vindicator, it's short range isn't much of a problem when they come flying towards you, it'll definetly put the scare in him cause it can blast away a good portion of that sqaud.
As stated above there are lots of good choices, given he is spending 600 points on the squad that gives you a lot of flexibility. 2 squads of Thousands sons giving you 20 marine killing rounds a turn, and 40 when in rapid fire range, should be more than enough to reduce the squad to just independent toons in 1 or 2 rounds. even if charged their invul save will take a lot of the sting off the IC's since they are only marine str. Soften them up with some battle cannons and hit them with some melta wielding raptors on the way in. PF instakill their IC's starting with the lib.
Yep, he takes Meltabombs, so walkers probably won't help. The other thing is that it's tough to hide a walker from the things that can kill it and still manage to get it into combat with a unit that can move with the speed of an Assault Squad.
I tried the idea of the double-Princes (great idea, btw) and just needed to get one Lash off in order to properly position him...rolled a 12 on one psychic test and the other was negated by the Hood. So, my Princes were sitting there next turn allowing him to charge in and destroy them one at a time. 9 times out of 10 he chooses where and when to assault due to his speed.
The time before that I used a Khorne Raptor squad. I managed to Lash him (this was before he switched out the Chaplain for the Librarian), shot him up, then charged with the squad. I killed a bunch of his normal guys, but in the end I got wasted. Granted I rolled poorly and he saved well, but still he chopped through my guys with his ICs and then they proceeded to easily take out my Noise Marines who were nearby next turn.
The problem is that he can easily absorb so many wounds with the Assault Squad and as long as those ICs get into combat they can basically kill anything. Power Fists hit last, so he can often manage to clear enough of my guys (he's killing more than 6 per turn) before the PF attacks that I don't get to hit back (not in base contact anymore).
My current thought is to switch out a Prince for a Chaos Lord of Slaanesh with a Blissgiver and attach it to my Raptor squad. The Raptors will hopefully hang around longer by giving them Mark of Nurgle, and the Blissgiver at Init 6 should be able to take out an IC with its Instant Death rule before the IC can even attack. Thoughts?
Re the Chaos Lord Daemon Weapon: that could certainly help with those extra attacks you can obtain through dice roll. The only problem is that all those attacks would be directed solely at the enemy IC, so if one wound kills him and you roll 6 or 7 successful wounding hits, those others are wasted. What I would do is to take the Blissgiver and put all your attacks into his accompanying squad by making sure your IC is *NOT* in BtB with his IC. They will have no save against this, so you should be able to whittle the numbers down quite handsomely. It is vital though that you aim your assault with the Lord into the middle section of your opponent's unit, as far away from the IC as possible but where as many of your own attacks will find victims.
Your own supporting troops should be placed so that his IC can only take out a small number of them; remember the 2" kill zone when moving the models. This hopefully leaves you with more of your own guys in BtB with *his* support unit, thus increasing the number of survivors for you to use against his unit.
Your opponent now has a bit of a problem. He cannot touch your IC, so has no way of protecting his own squad from your wrath. He wants to diminish your efficacy by killing as many of your support troops as he can, but you've cut that number down by your positioning. After he attacks, his IC will be left out in the open with nothing to do......until your survivors move in on top of him with your Lord leading the way at a higher initiative.
Meanwhile, your Lord gets wired into the enemy unit, hopefully ripping it apart. A potential 10 attacks should do a fair bit of damage, thus lessening the amount of hurt which can be exacted back onto you.
The ordinary chaps slug it out, and hopefully you will emerge the victor. It could be that Mr. Psychic Boy may have to make a Morale Test on quite a low Ld, which could be interesting if he fails it......No Retreat! rule kicks in.
Another nice thing you could also consider for your army is to take Lucius.
One other thought: try the Tau method of Patient Hunter. Draw his units forward by dropping yours back, while preparing the killing ground for your shooting and assault units. These next paragraphs were copied from Warmongerclub.com Formations:
"Cannae Tactic. At Cannae, Hannibal's Carthaginians engaged the Roman cavalry on the flanks while their centre fell back steadily before the elite Roman legionaries, who were inexorably drawn forward into the trap formed by the lighter Carthaginian units on the flank, who remained stationary. When the Roman cavalry broke, the Carthaginian cavalry swung around and closed the trap. The Roman legions were hemmed in from all sides and slaughtered. The massacre drove the Roman army to the brink of defeat.
The same tactic can be used against an opponent trying to Drive a Wedge, our main units falling back in the face of his strong centre while our support units advance to outflank his centre."
This was used to show what I meant.
Last edited by eiglepulper; April 3rd, 2008 at 20:51.
"Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"
Betrayer, if you know what's coming, then chaos can pretty much customize to meet any situation. Actually, it works greatly to your advantage when opponents lump all of their eggs into one basket, because we have lots of ways to hit a single unit with quick spurts of potent fire.
Bellerah's suggestion of T.S. marines is the best idea yet, and I'm kind of embarrassed to have forgotten about them . In any event, your opponent has invested 600 points into a single squad/squad combo, so don't worry if your reactionary measure requires a sizable amount of points.
How about this:
8x Tzeentch Marines- 254
*1x aspiring sorcerer with doombolt
8x Tzeentch Marines- 254
*1x aspiring sorcerer with doombolt
5x Terminators- 175
TOTAL POINTS: 683
Even without the termis, the two Tzeentch squads should handle your opponent's mega unit without much hurdle. If positioned properly, you should have two solid rounds of ranged fire, before the mega unit charges. Given this, that's 48 inferno bolt shots from your T.S. marines, which should result in 16 dead marines. Even if you only get a single round of rapid fire, you'll kill nearly 11. That's more than enough.
I think you'll find that with a few changes, this mega unit (as I seemed to have dubbed it) will very much work to your advantage .
Spambot kill tally. . .337