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I am in the process of building an army and am kind of torn between couple of khorne and slaanesh units:
Hounds vs Seekers:
Hounds got better stats while seekers got lower stats but has rend and more attack. Is a mix of this a good idea or have all seekers/hounds?
Bloodletters vs daemonettes:
Bloodletters aren't as fast but they can be a beast in CC if they get there. Daemonettes got rending and can probably get to the enemy faster than the bloodletters. split?
crushers vs fiends :
crushers is more durable but fiends are insanely fast and can probably get to 1-2 more units than crushers. Crushers will probably finish up units faster than fiends.
Any input on these units?
I've been wondering the same thing, recently. Both Daemonettes and Bloodletters seem to fill the same roll in a Daemon army, and in that light we have no choice but to ask which is more effective?
I think though, that we only wonder about this because we're still in a 4th edition mindset. It is "rumored" that in 5th there will be a significant nerf to rending (needed or not, I dunno, but I don't want to get into an argument here ) which will change the rolls of each of these choices. Daemonettes will (in 5th) be much less deadly in CC than Bloodletters, but still retain their speed. Yes, Bloodletters will recieve "Run", but without the ability to charge, I think Daemonettes will take the roll of hunting weaker shooty units that they have to close with quickly while Bloodletters will be our standard "kill everything" squad.
The new rending rules will (in addition to D3 against vehicles) change 6s in the to "hit" roll to the to "wound" roll. This will, against opponents with WS4 (using Daemonettes profile) cut the amount of rending wounds you make by 50%.
Daemonettes will still have "Fleet", meaning they will get to move D6" AND charge. They will also still have rending, but with reduced effectiveness.
Bloodletters will (most likely) get "Run", allowing them to move an extra D6" but NOT charge that turn.
In 5th, you roll to hit normally just like any other unit without Rending. You'll just use your WS against their WS. There are no more "auto wounds". Then after that, during the "To Wound" rolls all 6s will be AP2. Which is curious, because that also means that rending will no longer stop Feel No Pain either (as it does not ignore armor in CC, just negates 2+ saves).
Well reading the rumor forum http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...r-summary.html (40K 5th edition rumour summary)
I looked into rending and feel no pain.
" • Rending – cause an AP2 wound against non-vehicles and against vehicles adds D3 to the Armour Penetration"
so instead of an extra d6 for a roll of 6, you automaticaly get an extra d3 agianst tanks. And rending agianst units will still cause no armor save becuase its ap 2. Doesnt say anything about rolling to hit, then rending on 6 to wound.
As for FnP
" • Feel No Pain – cannot be used if you won’t receive an armour save"
Considering that rending is ap 2 now, it still will not allow and armor save, and so will still negate FnP. but this brings up another intesting thing. any weapon now agianst nurgle will not allow a FnP save, becuase they dont have an armor save, so they wont recieve and armor save, thus not allowing a FnP roll.
But then agian, these are the rumors, so they may or may not hold true once 5th comes out.
Hands down Slaneesh is way better. Played a game with some dude that run two squads of Khorne Bloodletters and two squads of Slaneesh, as well as a Plague Bearer squad. The Bloodletters didn't even make it to CC, the Plague Bearers got destroyed in CC, and the Slaneesh.. well they totaly destroyed my guys and scored all the points for him. Rending against my Terminators makes me want to cry. He took out my GM and 5 Terminators then Massacred into a squad of Grey Knights, would have killed them all if he didn't miss one rending.
5 wins, 2 draws, 1 loss
For rending, I haven't heard about "always" getting an extra d3 armor pen, just that the d6 rending used to give was brought down to d3. Either way, I've seen the PDF of the "rumored" 5th book and unless they've changed it since that one rending is definitely moved from the Hit roll to the Wound roll.
With FnP, "cannot be used if you won't recieve an armour save" is SURELY NOT how it will be worded in the official text. Just as you gave the example of Plaguebearers, that wording (besides not being a complete sentence) opens up absolutely absurd problems. It is much more reasonable to assume that whoever wrote that rumor meant that against weapons that do not allow an armor save FnP is lost. Not that whenever you don't have an armor save. From what I've heard, FnP is just as it is now, except that AP 1 and AP 2 weapons will now also ignore it. Does that allow AP 2 rending to ignore FnP? I don't know. It depends on wording. We'll see when 5th comes out!
@ Demon Eyes:
Daemonettes are better against YOUR army, that is Grey Knights. They close in faster, meaning they dont get as much of that lethal fire on them and they have rending.
We have to see them from a better perspective, from a 5th ed. perspective.
Daemonettes have fleet and rending. This makes them fast and deadly NOW. In 5th edition Rending gets nerfed and every unit in the game has can opt to Run (unless specifically stated), making them as fast as the Daemonettes are now.
Bloodletters have Power Weapons and Furios Charge. From what I've heard, nothing changes with these rules. But in 5th edition Bloodletters are almost as fast as Daemonettes are now, as they can chose to run.
Daemon armies will still get slaughtered by Grey Knights as is the way it should be. But Bloodletters will be better than Daemonettes and rule supreme in hand to hand fighting (and with Bloodletters I also include Bloodcrushers and Heralds of Khorne).
"The more choices you force the opponent to make, the better the chance for you to capitalize on his mistakes"