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After the many books on the Horus Heresy, I was really expecting something great with this codex... but to be honest, i feel that GW has taken two steps back with the '07 codex. I don't feel like the Chaos Space Marines have any character anymore. The legions have been dismantled, and even the remaining cults of TS, DS, EC, and WE seem to have been severely weakened. I'm very disappointed with this codex to the point where i want to ask GW for my money back... There are no specialized demon units, and now my Lord of Change is just another model... Why did they strip chaos of everything that made them different? The veteran skills gone, the elite hardened soldiers... I hate this. What are peoples thoughts on this, and is there really anything about this codex that isn't disappointing? I want to be able to say "I play an alpha legion army" and have it actually MEAN something...
Raptors with the Mark of Khorne
Termies that now have a reasonable points cost
Greater Daemons that are a bargain for their statline
No more 0-1 on Obliterators
Summoning rules that are MUCH better
T(5) Plague Marines with Feel no Pain
Lash of Submission
Now, in terms of fluff, I would agree that this Codex is a bit retarded. It does, however, open the door for GW to make another Codex that gives the Legions back.
But, the only reason you can't field a Legion army is because YOU don't want to. Legion feel and play is all about composition and playstyle, not special rules. Granted, the special rules made it easier to guide your army list to a specific Legion, but with the current Codex, you still get 90 percent there.
I've said it many times before - if you make a Legion-style list, your opponents will remember that they were beaten by the Alpha Legion!
The 07 codex = me winning more matches.
So it gets a big thumbs up from me....
What once was courage has now cursed in the wars we've made.
We are the sinners, before our graves.
IMO, it's no-less powerful (perhaps more so?) but it's been blandified and loss some of its charm and fun.
I myself think the codex is very strong, competitive and allows you to make any kind of list you want. (except stupid lists like everyone infiltrates etc.
Alpha Legion are sneaky, that doesn't mean that they have to infiltrate. And you can represent Cultists with Daemon rules, etc.
I'm hoping that Chaos Legions and Chaos Mortals codii become a reality, but in the end they are unrequired.
The loss of sonic weapons on terminators and vehicles might be annoying, and the fact that you can't have god specific daemons anymore is annoying but it just means that the emphasis of codex Chaos Space Marines is on the space marines.
Codex Legions would be 9 army lists that allow the creation of each of the legions more strictly.
Khorne World Eaters may only take Beserkers for troops, must take mark of Khorne on Daemon Prince, Chaos Lord, can use Bloodthirster, Bloodletters, Flesh hounds and Juggernaughts, Only vehicles are transports, and defilers (maybe) no unmarked troops and cannot ally with any force with Slaneesh or sorcerers in it.
Alpha Legion cannot used marked troops or Daemons of any kind, but get cultists and booby trap style attacks, reserves coming from different table edges and the like.
Codex mortals would cover the main type of chaos army. The new lost and the Damned.
Would have rules for mutants, rebels, traitors, beastmen, non marine champions, would allow the use of the minor and major daemons from CSM, etc. If they really want to please put in units that resemble genestealer hybrids, patriarch, and genestealers so that people can create a genestealer cult too.
Arch Overfiend & Grand Despot
I currently play:
Doom Eagle Space Marines
Hive Fleet Omega Tyranids
Goff Ork Boyz(dead)
Tau of O'me
Inquisitorial Xeno Hunters
and my attempted foray into fantasy
'Dark Angel Green' Dark Elves in need of fluff
The loss of god specific daemons is annoying, but it does put more focus on the CSMs themselves and in 5th edition having strong troops look a must instead of over relying on ultra killy hqs and veteran abilites.
The newest CSM codex is not a direct translation of the old codex. It was not meant to replace everything the old one had, in my opinion. The old codex allowed you to run all the Legions with special rules as well as a mulitude of Undivided armies with their own special rules.
The new codex is for Renegade Marines. It is not for dedicated Legions. True, many still lament the loss of special rules for Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors and Night Lords, but I think those can be well represented in the new codex.
The Legions, however, I think warrant their own codicies. Whether or not GW plans to do this or not, I think it would be a wise move. It would allow them to expand on the fluff, model range and game mechanics of each Legion individually. Look at the Chaos Daemon codex as an example. Daemons are certainly represented in the CSM codex, but they are much more fully fleshed out in their own proper codex.
Just like Black Templars, Dark Angels and Space Wolves all have seperate rules from the Space Marine codex, I think the Legions will do the same in time.
That being said, the new codex has streamlined the overly complicated Chaos rules from last edition. There were lots of special rules seemingly for the sake of special rules. I love the new Codex, but look forward to more from GW on our friends from the Warp.
Emperor have mercy on those who stand against me, for I shall not.
I think the new codex is great, mainly because of one major thing: space.
It gives a good basis for things to come. This is codex space marines and covers the forces employed by the renegades (the most numeous of the forces of chaos). These renegades often mix in the cults of the old legions, such as the Berzerkers of Khorne, the Noice Marines of Slaanesh, the Plague Marines of Nurgle and the Rubric Marines of Tzeentch. Also they can fight alongside the Obliterators of the Iron Warriors. But this codex isn't designed to cover the Cults themselves. Sure, we can make armies exclusively with the Legions in mind, but they wont be purely dedicated ina rules-supported way. And that's good!
The cults form an essential part of the Warhammer 40K universe, to exclude them would be downright stupid. This codex leaves space for dedicated Cult codexes. I love that, and I'm willing to wait for that!
I've said this a million times before, and I'll continue to. Because I think we'll get dedicated codexes just like the coming Space Wolves codex coming up soon.
So, this is a great codex, but let's not forget what it's meant to cover; the renegades.
I don't like the old codex, where the glory of the old cults was described in about 3 or 4 pages.
"The more choices you force the opponent to make, the better the chance for you to capitalize on his mistakes"
I'm not even going to bother making much of an argument here. I dislike the new codex more and more every time i take a look at it... But the art cover is bitching though... thats got to count for something right?
Far from simplifying the rule , they completely gutted the chaos forces: 1/2 the codex is useless (Dreads, possesses, spawns, noise marines) , 1/2 the codex is over priced (every HQ, most heavy support , marks and 1k sons ) and the last 1/2 doesn't leave much for tactics . (The 3x 1/2 was a joke btw.) Frankly i think its going to get worst with the 5th edition , but then again i'm a pessimist.
Most forum goers will not admit to the fact that the new dex is a load of <Bleeping> <Bleep>, but what do you expect? Its hard to acknowledge that you've wasted hundreds of dollars and countless hours slaving over your workbench for nothing. So what do you do? You deny , you make up stuff and you cling to the notion that its not that bad.
You can compare the Ork , Eldar , and ill wager the new Loyalist codex to see how it should have been made (And to a degree the Tyranids codex, which i think will be more diversified in the 5th) Speeching of which; Word on the grape vine is that G.W. is going to release a codex "Cult" for chaos , if true, i would be a sign that the 07 codex failed and they're trying to "reboot" the line.
In any case, I always give this as advise; Just buy the new loyalist codex and use it as a template for your army. Say that its a chapter "recently" turned to chaos, so you can still use some of your chaos forces for fluff and still be able to enjoy 3 patterns of land raiders, spirit of the machine, 3 patterns of land speeders, 3 patterns of dreadnoughts (That won't kill your own troops , imagine that! ) razor backs, assault cannons , plasma cannons, multi meltas, the legion of the damned, Hq's that are actually worth taking , Atsknf, combat tactics and all that jazz.
Me , i'm going Greens of nids... still haven't decided yet.
"The things that appear are a vision of the unseen"
-Anaxagoras of Clazomenae
Eh, the Space Marines will always be the top dogs. Nothing new about that. Our Codex plays well, and as far as the tournament scene goes it's quite effective. It's the fluff loss that hurts, but we'll live until the next revison.
The Four Stages of Grief:
1. Denial. "They got rid of the Horus Heresy? No way!"
2. Despair. "How could they do this? GW is more evil than my Daemon Prince of Nurgle!"
3. Bargaining. "Maybe they'll make a Codex: Legions."
4. Acceptance. "I'm gonna lash Marneus Calgar and crack him open like a plumber's backside."
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard