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Ok, Ive figured it is time we have a thread for each enemy army, we discuss how we have fared against them and what tactics to do and not do against. This thread will focus on fighting Loyalist Trash Feel free to put in any input on the subject, that is what these thread is for, Chaos fighting Space marines.
Awesome idea Hashu'
Ok, listen up, this is how this works:
We're gonna deal with the scum that opposes us one race at a time. Don't get excited and jump the gun and start multiple threads for lots of races.
Let's keep focused for a week or so on one race at a time - this time it's the Imperialist dogs - Marines.
I'm going to sticky this thread.
Give all your advice, and stay focused!
Death to the false emperor and his pathetic lackeys.
First off, we're better in combat than them. Lets just establish that from the get go. Chaos tends to focus on a "raid" style of play unless your build is shooty. For the standard chaos army however, we put on the pressure hard and fast. Marines take a more balanced approach.
So, to beat them? Simple. Take out their key units. Marines are known for their all rounderness, and Have everything we have. But we have even more versatility than they do. So, a Marine list may have a devastator squad and you play a tank heavy list. Thats target #1 and so on. However, Marines are very very versatile, so can have weapons like lascannons in all of their squads.
So, to get round this, its simple. Engage in combat. Like I said earlier. We're simply better at it. We have Daemon Princes, Berzerkers, Khorne in general and suchlike. If we can get up close we can deliver that deathstrike.
Another note has to go to Thousand Sons. These are simply amazing against Space Marines, in a rhino, if you can get them in rapid fire range you can mow down squads at a time.
Usually marines can equal or beat us at shooting, so a pure shooty list might struggle a little, but you can win. However,I play assault (except my TS and EC, but i prefer assault) so Im going to leave shooty to someone who really knows what theyre on about.
Power Weapons, Monstrous Creatures and Plasma are your friends.
I will be back tomorrow with more advice.
Thanks for the intel Ninja
One major improvement we have over loyalist as well as other armies. We come with CCW and pistol as standard. We do not need to pay for them, same for grenades. We get both frag and Krak grenades free. Loyalists have to pay, even then they can only choose between bolter or pistol and ccw. We get bolter, ccw, frag and krak grenades as standard. Giving us an advantage over other units. The average CSM unit has done better in close combat than cult troops in my games. I do not know why, but they seem to outdo even berserkers. the standard CSM is perhaps the best unit in the game as far as effectivness for its cost.
Ninja did Karmoon not say we were only going to focus on Space Marines for the moment?
Hmmm, perhaps we could find a place to store that for the time being.
Black Templars :
Shoot them and they might come forward (usualy they do).
They got a mandatory Champion of the emperor in 1250+ points games, which is a Close Combat Specialist.
They can include initiates in their ranks. Initiates are apprentice space marines, less strong, less solid. They serve the purpose of abblative wounds.
In counterpart, if I remember correctly, they don't get to use assault cannons, which is a good news !
The whole army is better suited for close combat than for shooting, kind of like space wolves.
For all of you veteran chaos players who witnessed units of berzerkers being forced to run into a land raider and then to spend 3 turns hopelessly trying to get through it while mowed down by bolters and such. Well, black templars are not so far from this. Is short, if you inflict a shooting casualty in a black templar squad, they try a morale check and move toward the shooting unit, assaulting it if in range.
Most Black Templars players find it useful until you bring a 10 models unit down to 3 and you force them to assault you in cover. Then, they are dead, period. This is one way to deal with them, but it doesn't work all the time, and it doesn't work if you are fighting a clever player (in opposite to a power player) who fielded more than 2 basic troop choices. Still, from time to time, this is a good trick to pull out from your pocket.
Also, because of this ability to move forward quicker than most armies, most black templar players will field little number of Rhinos, often not at all. This leave his squads vulnerable to blast templates and concentrated fire. Blast templates (Defilers and Vindicators guns) are a good option, but remember ther they will probably move forward after being shot. This means that you short range vindicator could be a potential target for assault in the following turn. Concentrated fire is to be avoided if not able to completly neutralise the squad. Against this army, you are better spreading death toll between squads in order to deal with smaller units than killing one and dealing with the three others in close combat.
Still, you might use the concentrated fire technique to force a single unit forward, isolating it from all other. This is a good tactic and it present the advantage to place a doubt in your opponent's mind : "ok, if I lose this squad, there is a gap in my front line, i need to move in order to fill this gap..." and this might force him/her to rethink is strategy, thich is always bad in the middle of a game.
Also, if you are about to fire the defiler or vindicator to a unit in cover, try shooting at it with another unit first. As soon as they take a casualty, they have to move and so get out of cover. Then shoot with the defiler.
You want to make them cry, Lash of torment is the perfect tool against those Loyalists. They move forward, you move them backward. They cry.
Other than that, they are full fledged Space Marines, so deal with them the good old ways.
CHAOS Undiv.: won 14/22 games EC: 4/7 WE: 6/9 DG: 10/15, TS: 3/7 Orks : 13/20 SM NL : 1/6 TAU: 14 of 24 IG: 3/7
I've faced off against a Black Templars force on two occassions. the first time I got wiped. Because I was using more standard CSM and everything was foot slogging shooty. Hardly ever got in range.
However, the second time was a different story. I ran more 'Zerkers and a Predator. The predator kept my opponent locked down as he was afraid to move his units out into the line(s) of fire. This allowed me plenty of time to run my 'Zerkers up to him, where he jumped his Assault troops right into the mix of two units, only to have them die like the dogs they are. This allowed me to rush his command unit with about 10 'Zerkers and Kharn. In the ensuing blood bath, Kharn only took 2 casualties of mine, and my opponent lost an entire squad of marines plus the 5 or so members of the commander's retinue. I had Kharn and 3 'Zerkers left. then the mission ended with the BT commander surrounded by Khornate blood monsters
Silent Ninja - I'm sorry your last effort didn't work out. But none the less, it's still rude
1. to hijack other people's work
2. to ignore other people's posts.
I have deleted your post, so we can focus on marines... HOWEVER
I have kept a copy of it. It will be useful in due time
Be patient, and lets work on this together.