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Thread: Chaos with 5th

  1. #1
    A legend in my own mind.
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    Chaos with 5th

    This is probably a bit early. but i want your opinioons on the new 5th edition and how it helps or hurts the servants of the ruinious powers. ANy games alreayd played with 5th edition rules are welcomed


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    Member danis2005's Avatar
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    I love the new blast rules, love the running, and my dusty old rihnos ar back in the fighting .I would say this edition is great.

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    Eternal Crusader Helbrecht's Avatar
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    With the new LoS rules its going to be harder to infiltrate units within 12 inches without being seen. Go rhinos!
    Xbox Gamertag: x Helbrecht x

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    I find 5th didn't really do anything to hurt Chaos - and in fact, it may have helped since A. we have sturdy "troops" and B. it hurt one of our major predators: Tri-Falcon/Harlequin eldar.

    Anyway, here's a batrep I did for a 5th ed. chaos vs. daemons game if you're interested:
    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...-2000-pts.html (5th Ed. Chaos vs. Daemons, 2000 pts)

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    Looking it over, I've only had to make one minor change to my army. I've switched my Raptor Champion from Fist and Pistol to Twin Lightning Claws. Thought being, I keep the extra attack, and if I have to hit anything big, I still re-roll failed wounds. Plus, against other stuff, I still strike at initiative.

    I only got to skim the rules today while watching some friends play. I won't have my Rule Book until Wednesday (first batch sold out already...our store was selling them Monday). But I didn't catch anything that majorly hurts us.

    I missed how assaulting a Vehicle works, but I did notice the FAQ saying Kharn only hits things with a WS on a 2+ now... Don't know if that's a big deal (I used to tear up transports with him to get to the guys inside).
    Half Gods are worshiped with Wine and Flowers. Real Gods are worshiped in Blood.

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    Topic Creator Deluxe Mr_Wayne's Avatar
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    One of our strongest asset in 5th is the Land Raider. It's high armour value, transport capacity adn assault vehicle rule, I can easily picture myself fielding a Land raider heavy Berzerker army.
    The Space Marine Land Raider will be amazing and ours will pale in comparison, but we got other things to make up for it. NOthing in our army worth fielding gets worse. Almost everyting gets better.
    "The more choices you force the opponent to make, the better the chance for you to capitalize on his mistakes"

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    Member Dave the Barbarian's Avatar
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    Speaking of Chaos and 5th: I have a question based on my interpretation of the Run rule and Disembarking. If I'm right here, Possessed may have gotten a whole lot better.

    Now, troops can shoot after Disembarking. Instead of Shooting, they can Run (while Disembarking specifically states they may not move any more during the Movement Phase, Running happens in the Shooting Phase).

    Previously, getting Fleet with Possessed would be disappointing, since they're best placed in Rhinos or Landraiders anyway, this roll (and a roll for Scout) could possibly go to waste on a rather expensive squad.

    But now with 5th, it seems Fleeting Possessed could disembark from a standard Rhino, Run in the Shooting Phase, and still assault with the new Fleet rules.

    And with their other previously useless roll, they can now Scout move in a Rhino.

    While still being too random for some people, I think this actually makes Possessed usable for any roll they get with the way that makes sense to play them (starting in a transport).

    So how are other people playing this? Can we Run out of Rhinos? This opens up so many other possibilities, too, like running away from the Rhino to claim objectives, or seeking better cover.

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    Eternal Crusader Helbrecht's Avatar
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    Now, troops can shoot after Disembarking. Instead of Shooting, they can Run (while Disembarking specifically states they may not move any more during the Movement Phase, Running happens in the Shooting Phase).
    On page 67 it states that units that disembark after a vehicle has moved may shoot but not assault, so the pssessed can run but they still can't assault even though the fleet abilty allows them to do so as the disembarking rules prevent them from assaulting. If you want to have them assault they'll have to get out before the rhino moves.
    Xbox Gamertag: x Helbrecht x

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    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    My LGS did a tournament for the new edition rollout. I played my Night Lords in the following list:

    Lord, MoK, Daemon Weap., Juggernaut

    CSM x10, plasmagun x2, AC/powerfist, combi-melta
    CSM x10, plasmagun x2, AC/powerfist, plasma pistol
    CSM x10, heavy bolter, AC/combi-flamer
    3 Rhinos for the above, all with two combi-bolters

    Possessed x10, IoK
    Raptors x11, flamer, AC/L.claws, meltabombs
    Land Raider, D.possession, dozer blade
    1750 total

    Both games had city-type terrain (bunkers, rubbled buildings, etc.) The first game was against Chaos with both Slaanesh and Nurgle elements. My form was perfect, no tactical errors at all, but the game ended up being decided by two Obliterators on top of an exceptionally high building. His Lash Prince focused on my troops and threw them out in the open to be gunned down by Oblit plasma cannons and a Defiler battlecannon. Lesson learned: it is impossible to hide your troops from the enemy. No matter what you do (short of an IC behind a Land Raider), your enemy will be able to see a part of a single model, and therefore the model's entire squad. Lash was particularly brutal this way--no more hiding behind buildings!

    The second game was against Orks. The enemy consisted of 120+ Orks, Snikrok and the jump packed character. Terrain didn't matter much, Snikrok & the other held down a flank long enough for Waaagh! to kick in and my guys were drowned in green. I would have won had my Lord's Bloodfeeder not failed me twice out of two attempts. I was hampered by a lack of ranged firepowerr to soften up the enemy, but kudos to my Possessed punishing the Orks anyway--they racked up 22 kills despite not getting the charge! Lessons learned: I need more anti-horde weaponry, I need to find effective counters for Ork characters and it really sucks that a mob of 30 boys can countercharge now. Soften then up, then charge!


    In 4th Edition, my army was based on close-quarters firepower--sneak in, use vehicles to dictate line of sight and proceed to gun down isolated units, using CC as a finishing move if needed. This isn't going to work in 5th Edition. At range my men can't hide from heavy weapons and ordnance, so I'm not likely to get in close with the numbers I need. At point blank, I cannot use rapidfire rules to clean the enemy out of a 12" radius anymore, nor can I snipe off individual models to better my odds. In CC, the brutal new combat resolution rules mean whoever gets the charge is very likely to win, so letting them charge my CSMs and hoping they'll last long enough for help to show up is not going to work.

    I'm not sure where to go with my army. Not being able to hide my units really, really bothers me; it means I'll have to compensate for dakka-heavy opponents with listhammer instead of tactics. Meanwhile, the speed from running means CC-heavy opponents are practically cavalry. I think specialization is the way to go; have units either throw massive amounts of long-range ordnance down the field, or go berserker-nuts on CC and trust combat resolution to multiply the bloodshed. The orientation of most missions toward objective markers makes the last especially valuable.
    Last edited by Intrepid; July 13th, 2008 at 08:11.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

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    Eternal Crusader Helbrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intrepid View Post
    I'm not sure where to go with my army. Not being able to hide my units really, really bothers me; it means I'll have to compensate for dakka-heavy opponents with listhammer instead of tactics. Meanwhile, the speed from running means CC-heavy opponents are practically cavalry. I think specialization is the way to go; have units either throw massive amounts of long-range ordnance down the field, or go berserker-nuts on CC and trust combat resolution to multiply the bloodshed. The orientation of most missions toward objective markers makes the last especially valuable.
    I'd say go with either vindicators or predators, they are both cheap and highly effective at killing hordes, especially the vindicator in the new edition.
    Xbox Gamertag: x Helbrecht x

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