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I thought of doing a Ork footslogging horde for my next army but 2 things have put me off it: 1. Due to my recent grot rebellion army I'm sick of painting greenskins and 2. There isn't much unique conversion work to be had pirates, feral, chaos tainted they've all been done.
Which brings me on to Chaos, the standard marine can switch between a long range and close combat weapon allowing you to adjust the squad to match the situation and with the new running rules a horde of around 75 chaos marines running across the board could be a scary sight to behold.
But would an infrantry heavy horde army consisting of such a large ammount of chaos marines be effective?
Should and what marks should I give the squads Khrone to make them nastier when they reach the enemy, or Nurgle and Tzeench to protect them from enemy fire?
Should I consider any form of vehcile support or convert two rhinos to sheild my infrantry from harm?
These are the 3 questions I would like to have answered, and I'm hoping that you guys can provide some insight into my idea?
Well, Horde armies usually consist of lots of cheap troops (Nids, Orks, Guard...)
We don't exactly have cheap troops.
I'd say a mix of Khorne and Nurgle units would work best.
But you'd have to use CSM's with Icons, since I'd think the God Specific troops (while better) are more expensive in large units. Ignoring the obvious superiority, a Berzerker is 6 points more than a CSM with IoK. Units of 5 would cost the same, but as you got more troops, the CSM are cheaper. With Nurgle, units of 7 CSM with Icon are cheaper than 7 Plague Marines.
So, 3 units of 10 IoK Marines w/ Asp. Champ (w/ Power Weapon) is 630.
3 units of 10 IoN Marines w/ Asp. Champ (w/ Power Weapon) is 690.
So we have 1320 points total. 160 or so for a good HQ takes us to 1480.
Then 2 units of 10 Havocs armed with 4 Missile Launchers is 460. Total is 1960.
That will give you 81 Marines on the board. That is, of course, you take all 6 troops choices. You can take 2 of each type, then add in Rhinos, upgrade some Havocs to Lascannons (to take out AV14 stuff), or tool up your HQ a bit. 61 Marines is still a lot to kill.
This could be a pretty darn effective force. The Marines with IoK obviously will be the first wave of attack, while the IoN Marines will go grab objectives, or draw fire to help the other troops out.
For vehicles, the only thing I'd consider taking are Rhinos. You're wanting a horde army, and our Rhinos are pretty darn cheap. Havocs can fill the role of Anti-Tank, so tanks aren't needed.
Last edited by The Doctor; July 17th, 2008 at 06:57.
Half Gods are worshiped with Wine and Flowers. Real Gods are worshiped in Blood.
Blood for the Blood God! Beer for the Bronze Keg!
The way to go horde with Chaos is large footslogging units of CSM and Lesser Demons. Fill 1500 or 2000 points with 20 strong units with melta guns and lascannons and you have a force with AV14 stopping power, loads of bolters and the lowest possible per miniature points cost.
Having a unit of 20 spreads the costs of upgrades so a Lascannon in a unit of 20 CSM increases the per model cost to 16, add IoCG and melta and you are looking sub 20 point per model CSMs. Not bad at all.
A unit of 20 is 340 points. Four of those is 1360. That leaves you with plenty left over for demons which come in at even less and can't be upgraded. They can use one of your four Icons to DS and then charge turning any one of you moster units into a unit of 40 instantly. Scary stuff! 20 lesser demons is 260 points, I know you want two of those so our new total is 1880 and 120 models. That leaves you enough for a HQ, shrinking the demons a bit if you want something nasty and there you have it, a decent CSM horde. Nothing compared to what guard can do but not many people expect to see that many models when they are playing against the CSMs.
Problem with the Lascannons is that it really kills the mobilty of the squad, the army I'm really looking for is something than can run across the board and swarm the enemy lines, or if better off stand and shoot at armies such as tyranids and other nasty combat armies.
Remember, icons get effectively cheaper the more marines you have.
20 marines is a scary though... but 20 marines with increased T? or an invulnerable save?
That is definitely worth trying out.
Just remember to include some deepstriking/surgical elements to take out low ap pie plate firing stuff.
I can easily see a Berzerker army eat up swarms. Berzerkers bring lots of attacks with high WS, high Strength and high Initiative. A few transports makes them chose their fights so that they can outmanouvre the large enemy squads and wipe out entire units in the first round of combat.
"The more choices you force the opponent to make, the better the chance for you to capitalize on his mistakes"
I don't understand this whole Lascannons slow you down thing... When you are spreading the cost around twenty marines there is virtually no incentive to stop and use the things unless you need to. The idea of including a Lascannon is that if you really need to stop something nasty, you can. Got a Landraider bearing down on you? Well that will really hold you up, so blow it away. Got a nasty 'Nid bearing down on you? Blow him away, trust me it is less painful than spending the rest of the game being torn apart.
Nothing to worry about, no tanks or big gribbles? Forget the lascannon, you are not obliged to use it. The guy carrying it still has a Bolt Pistol and CCW and so gets an extra attack in close combat. Believe me, not taking a lascannon makes big units slower, not faster. The only way they can screw up is if you convince yourself that the unit is static because it has a lascannon, which just isn't true. It may be the case for Havocs with four, more expensive lascannons, but including one in a unit of twenty CSM is not a reason to be less mobile. It is a way to stay mobile.
Anyways, that's what I think about that.
This is why you take a power fist on your aspiring champion.Originally Posted by zarahemna
No power spoons. It will be VERY embarrasing to have your 20 strong man squad locked in combat for an entire game with one single wraithlord.
Do the right thing. Take a powerfist.
My younger brother likes running 20-man squads of Berzerkers. The only things he really worries about are battle cannons, redeemers and such... which his Obliterators take care of.
Also, one such "mob" is usually led by a Khorne Lord with a Daemon Weapon. Its generally a rare occasion that the Lord and surviving Zerkers don't make it into combat.
Last edited by psichotykwyrm; November 24th, 2008 at 20:30. Reason: spelling
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes