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  1. #1
    Senior Member Henshini's Avatar
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    Is 6 still better than 5?

    Back in 4th, 6 was the magic number for our squad sizes because power armour is so tough, it let us have the flexibility of using smaller squads and still be as effective as larger squads of lesser troops.

    The main reason 6 was better than 5 was because of how it worked with the various 25% and 50% thresholsd compared to 5. As a good number of our troops are fearless and the scoring thresholds are gone, is 6 better than 5 for any reason other than just being that one more wound?

    I realize 10 is going to be better than both, but for smaller games where you will struggle to fit 4 troops choices in with the rest of your army, what do you think?


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  3. #2
    Murder omgitsduane's Avatar
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    I always roll bad for armour saves. I seriously fail 50% of my saves... half my dice are ones almost every roll, I know its statistically correct but I've had witnesses.

    So because of this, I prefer larger squads as I can suffer 3-4 lost marines each turn of shooting/close combat and I don't want to run because the dice gods hate me.

  4. #3
    Chilli Fueled Heretic danjones87's Avatar
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    Id definatley say the bigger the squad the better. Im not totally up to scratch on the new rules and have yet to have a game using them. The new rules use kill points for some games and scoring units for others. All troops ALWAYS count as scoring even below 50% strength. Id suggest taking 6 strong simpley because its an extra wound and an extra bolter.

    Space marine players will find combat squad rules a little disapointing in the new rules, us chaos players are pushed to take 10 strong units and in combat these seriously out match our loyalist cousins.

    Dan

  5. #4
    zim
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    6>5... even with my nurgle i feel more comfortable with a 6 man sqaud rather than a 5 man, though if need be in a normal csm squad if you and putting in the final sqaud and happes to fit as 6 marines, you could take one out for a plasma gun and hope you don't keep rolling ones. plus that "extra wound" makes so if you lose 5 you got 1 left to take a point.

  6. #5
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    As someone very familiar with the last codex and 4th ed... I'll step forward and say that, while 6 man squads had their uses, they were by no means the 'magic number'.

    As has been pointed out in the previous posts, the more the better. And certainly in the last codex, the magic number was 8.

    10 is really what we should be aiming for, with appropriate permissions and kudos given to cult players who deviate for fluff reaons.

    So... scoring aside, I can think of very few instances where a small squad is better - unless you are seriously intending that squad to die for some reason.

    I guess, perhaps there could be a case for massed 5 man squad (or 6 x 5 man squads with a plasma gun)... as that's at least 6 seperate units to destroy for the enemy.
    But 5 man squads aren't that hard to neutralise...

    And the fact is I personally rely on my CSM to actually accomplish stuff, not just survive and get objectives...

    Perhaps it's how I play but it's always CSM in the thick of the fight for me. Whether its breaking a carnifex's knee caps, or shredding some damned fairies with their unholy bolters - a 10 man squad always tends to come out on top.

    I appreciate that 5th is a new beast though, and am willing to entertain the possibilty that things have changed more than I have anticipated...
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  7. #6
    Senior Member Henshini's Avatar
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    Would you sacrifice your number of troop choices in order to meet your 10 man ideal? Would you trade 3 6-7 man squads for 2 10 man squads? I ask this mainly for small games as we routinely play <1500 points in my area.

  8. #7
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henshini View Post
    I ask this mainly for small games as we routinely play <1500 points in my area.
    Ouch... Chaos can't really blossom in matches below 1500...

    That changes everything hahaha.

    Yeah, in which case, suddenely I understand where this '6 man' standard is coming from.

    And for the record, I'd still probably stick with 6.

    Scoring aside, more boots is better, and you can never have enough marines. I don't know how you use your marines, but whenever I've played small matches I've found myself assaulting almost out of necessity.

    In this circumstance, numbers is critical, and while Ultra grit has helped us increase our number of attacks, an extra pair of boots always helps.

    Tricky though Henshini. I've never been comfortable with smaller matches for Chaos - especially with the new codex.
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  9. #8
    Senior Member Henshini's Avatar
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    Most of the players I play on a regular basis are new kids, just starting out. Generally I win, so that's not my big concern. I like to build my forces balanced for all comers, with a little bit of chaosy spice, like oblits or a DP. I usually like to show the kids how to use their army together, not just 3 sepparate battles on the same table. I take time expaining why I chose units the way I did, what their strengths are and how I used them to take advantages of said strengths.

    With 2/3 of missions now being objective based, I think that number of troops choices is more important than the size of those individual troops choices. Combat squads is very useful at low point levels because of this. This is why, in my area, 6 was the magic number in 4th and in Cities of Death.

  10. #9
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henshini View Post
    Most of the players I play on a regular basis are new kids, just starting out. Generally I win, so that's not my big concern. I like to build my forces balanced for all comers, with a little bit of chaosy spice, like oblits or a DP. I usually like to show the kids how to use their army together, not just 3 sepparate battles on the same table. I take time expaining why I chose units the way I did, what their strengths are and how I used them to take advantages of said strengths.

    With 2/3 of missions now being objective based, I think that number of troops choices is more important than the size of those individual troops choices. Combat squads is very useful at low point levels because of this. This is why, in my area, 6 was the magic number in 4th and in Cities of Death.
    I'll be the first one to agree with you as to 6 in cities of death.

    I imagine that 6 will become relevant again when they remix and re-release Cities for 5th ed.

    Having read your post, the only thing I have left to say to you is, I look forward to reading more of your posts on the Chaos boards and LO as a whole.

    Cheers,

    Karmoon
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  11. #10
    Woof! Woof! Bark! Bark!!! aeroplane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karmoon View Post
    Ouch... Chaos can't really blossom in matches below 1500...

    That changes everything hahaha..
    In a smaller game, would it still make sense to have a couple of large CMS squads, or would more squads/less men per make sense?

    Not trying to threadjack, but what armies excel at the 1000-1250 level?






    .
    Last edited by aeroplane; July 17th, 2008 at 16:33.
    My insanely large Chaos Marine Army - look

    Thier commander's motto-listen

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