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  1. #1
    Member eckyl's Avatar
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    New tyranid armies arise in 5th edition

    Unfortunately (fortunately) for me almost all the Tyranid armies I've ever had to vs have all been Nidzilla lists more or less. Dakkafex's , Sniperfex's, flying hive tyrants with twin link devours and then usually a few genestealer's, gaunts etc.

    But with the new introduction of 5th edition since 2 out of the 3 missions I've noticed are objective based and only your troops can claim them. These are starting to disappear around my area.

    Mainly the problem I can see is the ability to kill the limited number of troops choices used in a nidzilla list. And by default almost auto winning 2/3 of the missions played in 5th. It makes it very difficult to pull a draw out. If not almost impossible to win.

    Quite a few of our players have begun using WoN (without number) in there games with different combinations and I'm curious to hear any comments or suggestions on how you would deal with these new armies.

    Tyranid army 1
    A close quarters army. It involves at least 1 flying hive tyrant and even a broodlord with infiltrating genestealer's (potentially able to assault up to 18inches from any edge on the board, first turn.) At least two spine gaunt units with WoN and the rest hormagaunt broods. Then a mixture of carnifex's, raveners and lictors. And one Zoanthrope in your deployment zone with the synapse creature power.

    The idea behind this army is that the first two or more gaunt units absorb a large portion of the initial firepower, while the entire army advances on your opponents objective or deployment zone (hoping at the least to contest their objective). The spine gaunts get annihilated and then spawn two new units in your deployment zone ready to move onto your own (hopefully) uncontested objective with the help of the zoanthrope.

    Tyranid army 2
    Is more or less designed around lots and lots of gaunts all with the WoN upgrade. Although the main weakness I've seen with 5th edition horde armies is the VP scenario. (Having lots of horde units means your enemy can destroy 5-6 units only costing you 300-400 points while killing the expensive and small enemy elite units means, 4-5 of his units can be tough to remove and even though you destroy 800-900 points worth of models you still loose. Because vp are based on killed units not the value of the unit killed.)
    You can lessen this by taking large squads rather than the traditional (2 squads of 10 are better than 1 squad of 20) and also not suffer to badly in the objective based scenario since you have a lot of gaunts with WoN anyway.

    This is quite an annoying army since I've seen even an unexperienced player pull out a draw just because they contest both objectives with so many damn troops on the board. But in my opinion this is the weaker of the two armies. Very few enemies will destroy all of your gaunts before they tie up the enemy in assault for your big hitters. And all those points wasted in the whole horde having WoN. The points could be better spent on those hard hitters or even other area's. Also since there tend to be less points spare, there tend to be fewer synapse creatures on the board. Meaning a viable strategy can even be throw everything you have after them with the hopes of removing the armies synapse and effectively pinning every troop choice. Stopping the tar pit & allowing you to take out the expensive units. And even hindering their ability to capture objectives.

    End

    I'm having the most difficulty with the first army as CSM. Trying to kill a horde of spine gaunts with WoN is difficult and almost can't be avoided with the new run rule. They make an effective tar pit, there fast, can pump out quite the shots, give a 4+ cover save to units behind them and even should you kill them they still come back at their board edge ready to capture objectives/assist again. That with so many dangerous units advancing behind them can be very hard to deal with.

    The most effective method so far for me has been to thin the WoN gaunts to very few numbers as early in the game as possible removing a large portion of their screening ability and this being better to do early rather than later in the game when the pressure is on. Then using my 4 man karmoon special termi's to deepstrike in behind the army and kill the zoanthrope while contesting/distrupting their objective. Then leaving the spinegaunts till the very last min before killing the last of them and having them respawn "out of synapse range" by then in their table quarter.

    What are your thoughts on the new 5th rules effecting tyranids. Overall I've found the nidzilla lists to be less effective (thank god) and even though these may not be better or worse I really enjoy being able to vs a different style of army for once.

    Last edited by eckyl; July 19th, 2008 at 05:50. Reason: Edited cuz of da spellingz
    "It's important to remember at all times that anyone who's done more than you has no life... Also, anyone who's done less than you is a noob."

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  3. #2
    With Oden On Our Side... The Doctor's Avatar
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    Forgive me, but what is WoN?

    The way I counter Nids is to beat them where they think they're the best. Melee.
    I play an all Khorne army, and I can almost match their attacks, but with better stats behind them (including Armor Save). HQ, Terminators, and Raptors will hit the bigger guys and my Land Raider and Preds will shoot whatever they can to soften them up.

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    Member eckyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eckyl View Post
    Quite a few of our players have begun using WoN (without number) in there games with different combinations and I'm curious to hear any comments or suggestions on how you would deal with these new armies.
    It says there without number, It means that when you kill a unit of gaunts with that upgrade the squad is removed. And then more or less a new identical unit spawns back in the tyranid players deployment zone ready to go again.
    "It's important to remember at all times that anyone who's done more than you has no life... Also, anyone who's done less than you is a noob."

  5. #4
    zim
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    this can be difficult... but as Doctor said, khorne can just run in to combat and rip them apart, with other chaos armies not so much. you can do the basic thing and snipe out synapse with lascannons and use plasma cannons in the swarm lists. that way even if they have with out number... who cares? they have no synapse so no guidence.

    so far i've only fought one tyranid player in 5th. plasma cannons and nurgle's rot were useful.

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    Senior Member Henshini's Avatar
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    I would imagine the volume of fire Noise marines can put out at range would be useful against swarmy nids.

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    With Oden On Our Side... The Doctor's Avatar
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    Note to Self: Don't skim when tired.

    A friend of mine has been playing 'Without Number' for a while (since the new Nid Codex came out). In 4th ED rules, I'd just blast them below half strength and move on to more pressing targets. However, that is no longer viable. Now you have to eliminate them completely.

    Noise Marines would be good for that. Sonic Weaponry definately holds an advantage over normal Bolters. Things with Templates will rules the field. Defiler's Battlecannons, Plasma Cannon's, and Heavy Flamers will rack up a lot of kills for you. Just use Lascannons (or infiltrating/deep striking units) to take out the big guys and they'll all lose their synapse.

    Half Gods are worshiped with Wine and Flowers. Real Gods are worshiped in Blood.

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    Senior Member Henshini's Avatar
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    You could also pray for the Annihilation mission. Infinite Kill points!

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    Senior Member Ghost of Rage's Avatar
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    One of my best friends plays Nids and I've found Plague Marines to work the best against them. If you're able to charge Genestealers they're in deep trouble, especially if you have a couple of flamers equipped, and even if they get to charge you, you've taken away a ton of attacks thanks to blight grenades. Carnifex' and Hive Tyrants are pretty easy to deal with, soften them up with lascannon fire then charge them with a daemon prince or even a squad of PMs with a PF. Also, if you have them, use Defilers and Oblits, Battlecannons and Plasma Cannons rock Nids like no one's business.

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    Senior Member Nhyx's Avatar
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    The nids I normally play against go with a horde/swarm army. And unless I bring a ton of pieplates, I get smoked.

    2 DP with Wings/MoS and Lash
    9 Oblits
    Lots of Noise marines with sonic blasters
    Raptors with flamers

    Cheesy against an army like that, but you do what you gotta do.
    I normaly play nurgle/slaanesh mixed lists (have about 40 deathguard with sonic blasters even, so they fit the rest of my color scheme), so its not that much a stretch from what I normaly play.
    Yes, I did deep-strike your sister...
    Necrons : W-8 D-3 L-7 (Sleeping in their TombFoam, waiting for a new codex)
    Chaos Forces (CSM/CD): W-42 D-19 L-28
    Apocalypse Games : W-4 D-0 L-1 (4 Titans, Brass Scorp, 3 Baneblades, 2 Bombers, 3 Fighters, and a Partrage in a Pear Tree)

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    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    EDIT: Twenty minutes of typing and then I realize that we've all been duped by a spambot, which has revitalized this old threat. Sheesh!

    *thread closed!*

    We have quite a few options for dealing with bugs. Where to start...

    Let's begin with contending with the biggies- 'fexes & tyrants. Ghost of Rage offered pretty good advice. You've got to soften them up first. Also, it's imperative that you focus on one monstrous creature at a time. Don't spread your high strength, low AP ranged attacks among multiple targets, but keep them centered on a single bug. Assess target priority: 1) Are there any winged tyrants that can reach me this round? If yes, then direct hate there. 2) Are there any tank busting threats among the monstrous creatures that can reach my vehicles? If yes, direct hate there. Try managing the T6 monstrous creatures before engaging the T7, unless you have sufficient S9 shots for killing the tougher bugs in a single round.

    Zoes: I rarely try and manage these guys. It just takes too much offensive investment, and the payout is slim. I wait until they are close enough to charge, or else, flat out ignore them. However, just be mindful of how they're configured. If you see they are posing a major threat, and you can do something about it, then take the initiative.

    Gaunts and Genes: Footslogging swarms of all the races are best dealt with by manipulation of your rhinos. Start the game with all your troops in a tactical ranged position so that they can ping away at enemy infantry. Berzerkers *can* be an exception to this; it simply depends on your build. Next, drive your rhinos out to meet the enemy swarms head on. Depending on your terrain setup, it's best to cut off all major traveling lanes and force the bugs into a bottleneck scenario. This also typically buys you another round before the bugs reach your rank and file. If you're experienced with the rhino wall, then you can actually delay close combat for two... maybe even three rounds.

    Another blip about rhinos: Don't be fooled. They're surprisingly difficult to use properly. You have to calculate exactly how far to advance them, and this hinges upon the general movement of your opponent's lines, as well as any specialized models, such as the close combat winged tyrant, which can come out of nowhere if you're not prepared. More than anything, you don't want to place your rhinos in a proximity that allows the enemy to gain added movement through the charge. This just takes practice.

    One more thing about the swarm: All of our troops do very well against smaller bugs with the exception of Thousand Sons. CSM challenge swarms with a decent number count & special weapons output; Plague Marines with staying power and special weapons output; Noise Marines with an infinite volley of small arms' fire and increased init; Zerks by sheer number of melee attacks.

    In addition, a Lash Prince should buy you another round before close combat ensues, may two if you pair up with dual lashes. This psi power also becomes vital if you're sending your rhinos off to meet the enemy head on, because you're troops are then stuck without a movement modifier. Especially for zerks, the lash effectively restores the absence of the rhino.
    Last edited by Rabbit; October 14th, 2009 at 01:26.
    Spambot kill tally. . .337

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