Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
This week we look at our battles with the Eldar. I havent played against Eldar yet myself. So feel free to discuss anything related to chaos marines vs Eldar.
Last edited by Hashulaman; July 27th, 2008 at 05:21.
they're a pain in the butt. you know what units your opponent is using? Fire Prism, must destroy first because after both of your armies start to diminish and he has a fire prism, its very difficult to destroy it.
Right then, I'll kick things off I think.
I do like my plague marines when facing Eldar opponents. Compared to normal CSMs their differences are quite useful.
Fearless: always nice and the extra armour saves you have to take from loosing rounds of combat are cut in half by feel no pain.
Initiative 3: Against Eldar..... who cares? The space-pixies are going to attack first whatever you do. Cover can help a little here as not all eldar use offensive grenades.
Toughness 5. Very usefull against Eldar S3 attacks. Banshees are dramatically affected by this as are power weapons from exarchs / autarchs. It even helps out aginst S6 weaponry such as Laser lance, starcannon and the scorpion claw. From shooting sources even a 5+ cover save can help keep your expensive marines alive against satar cannon.
Eldar weaponry that always wounds on a 2+ is a bit of a pain but lickily it often doesn't ignore our armour or FNP. Toughness 5 also helps when withstanding strength 4 weaponry such as shuriken cattapults and scorpion chainswords. Even with the DOOM Psi power the difference between taking wounds on CSMs and PMs is significant.
Feel no Pain: It is not as effective in 5th edition but it still keeps plague marines alive verses all sorts of weaponry. FNP gives you the equivalent of terminator armour against small arms fire. Don't forget FNP also protects us against Dark reaper fire especially if you can get any form of cover save.
Blight Grenades: These little beauties can take the sting out of eldar combat killers. 10 banshees or harlequins will loose a lot of damage potential from the defensive grenade rules. Smaller eldar combat units also loose some high strength power weapon attacks. Considder what 5 shining spears without an exarch will do to CSMs on the charge (15 attacks hitting on 4+ and wounding on 2+ = 6.25 dead). Now compare that to the same enemy charging plague marines (10 attacks hitting on 4+ and wounding on 3+ = 3.33 dead). Plague marines are also fearless and so more likely to stick around and polish off the spears in subsequent combat rounds. The poor eldar soon discover that clubbing a PM over the head with the butt end of a S3 non powered stick is a complete waste of time.
Wraithlords and even the mighty avatar will also loose out on a reasonable chunk of their combat potential.
Plague Marine equipment.
The humble bolter wounds T3 eldar very effectively and the poor armour of guardians can be ignored. Rappid fire can be used more often as your blight grenadel make being charged less of a problem in the next enemy turn. For this reason a pair of plasma guns are probably the best secial weapon to take. 2 or 4 S7 shots can take down Av12 vehicles and they also hurt the eldar monsterous creatures and instant kill farseers and autarchs. Our FNP also keeps the gets hot rule under control.
Melta guns are not bad but both wave serpents and avatars have special rules against them. Their short range means you can't dig in as effectively as with plasma guns and fight defensively from cover. Meltaguns are however very useful against non eldar opponents so you will probably always have a few in your army.
Flamers aren't reccomended unless you are mechanised. They are amusing when winkling out pathfinders from cover but if you are this close just charge them and they soon die.
Aspiring champions with power fists provide good insurance against wraithlords and avatars. Against Eldar the humble S4 power weapon becomes quite handy in a fight due to T3, the extra attack and cheaper points costs. (Ignore the fact that you get to keep I3 unless you are in cover)
The footslogging vs rhino debate will continue for years and I won't tackle it here. Mechanised squads are a good way to add mobility to an otherwise slow unit. tank shocking and blocking LOS are also good used to put empty taxis to. The main benefit is that the APC gives you a degree of control over when and where to fight as the manouverability of the eldar may otherwise overcome you.
Last edited by Mad Cat; July 29th, 2008 at 09:40.
Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.
Wraithlords are my primary concern, that obscene Strength and Toughness means you got to knock it out with lascannons or meltas at the beginning.
Great stuff on the plague marines Mad Cat, playing a 2v2 game with Chaos vs. Daemonhunters and Eldar right now and its for exactly those reason I took plague marines to hold on to my objectives with plasma.
Although the Noise Marines can stand up to the eldar quite effectively as well.
Fearless: Won't back down and with a 3+ armor save isn't at a terrible disadvantage to the no retreat rules.
Initiative: This is where the chosen of slaanesh can really shine, at I5 they will strike at the same time as all aspect warriors (but still after exarchs) and before the eldar's less elite troops.
Can all take sonic blasters which is helpful and allows you to grips with the otherwise elusive eldar who have several units who can hit and run or move again in the assault phase after firing.
Amongst these are anything on jetbikes and swooping hawks and maybe warp spiders (hit and run) and the jetbikes and warp spiders can both make a free move in the assault phase after shots to get out of rapid fire/assault/LOS.
The good thing is with new 5th edition rules getting out of line of sight is significantly harder and this is where the 24" range (making 30" effectively if you give up a shot to fire on the move)
Although taking sonic blasters makes them very expensive (equal to the overcostly grey knights!) but fortunately they still come well equipped without the sonic blasters with chaos being the only army thus far that actual makes use of holsters that allow them to carry more than two weapons.
The blastmaster is a very expensive upgrade, I normally don't take it. But it is extremely versatile with two fire modes which are both pinning.
The Aspiring Champion
Can be a huge boon vs. eldar with the ability for a personal flamer (doom siren) as well as being I5 as well makes the noise marines stand up to the few eldar that will get close enough.
Although that is the catch, your opponent will probably know that noise marines strike at the same time as their normal aspects and will either charge with banshees (who will tear through you as they will always strike first) or stay at range.
I suggest a power weapon to keep his I5 but this will make them very vulnerable to wraithlords and avatars so be wary.
While the plague marines are the ideal defensive troops against any army, particularly Eldar, the noise marines can be effective shock troops against the eldar. I will suggest rhinos for the noise marines always both as mobile cover and getting them into the grips of the enemy to capture the objectives. But as Mad Cat said that debate is not for this thread.
Noise marines can be very useful fire support as they will easily wound any normal eldar they shoot and can do it on the move. Furthermore the doom siren allows you to clear out pathfinders/rangers who will be very popular as objective holders.
Last edited by MadLarkin; July 28th, 2008 at 21:02. Reason: Sorry about that Karmoon, message edited
I applaud everyone's efforts to help. But please remember to observe forum rules while you do it.
There is no NEED to tell anyone on this forum how much an upgrade costs or what it does.
Presume your peers know and can find out.
Please edit your posts.
Havocs equipped with heavy bolters are an excellent unit for taking care of the eldar.
Most of their infantry only carry a 4+ save at best ( with the exception of dark reapers and wraithguard ) so these will deny that, the strenght of the heavy is sufficient enough for it to wound them on a 2+.
Further more it pumps out a good amount of shots, with the eldar and their ability to get re-rolls on their saves this is very important, the more they have to re-roll the more they'll fail.
Another aspect is that the heavy bolter is a cheap weapon and will often be overlooked by the enemy as for some reason they aren't that high on their treatlist.
Some units to watch out for in the Eldar army:
Rangers/Pathfinders: Is a great objective holder due to the +1 to cover save (+2 for pathfinders, eliminating the need to go to ground in most cases) and are the best sniper unit in the game with 2 chances to pierce armor. Ranger long rifles count as AP1 when they roll a 6 (5 for pathfinders) to hit on top of the rending rules. Can't stand up to assaults or flamers but will shrug off just about anything else if in the standard 4+ cover.
Howling Banshees: Nasty power weapon wielding women who scream their head off and thus strike first in the first round. Only S3 but if there are banshees there will be a doom casting farseer close by.
Farseers: Have a plethora of powers (can can cast 2 per turn with an upgrade) that boost the effectiveness of the army. This inlcude reroll cover, wound, and to hit rolls. Also can snipe our icon bearers with Mind War and can cast a storm that spins our vehicles in a random direction. Has witchblade and can have retinue that all have witchblades or spears (which can be thrown but has same effect) that always wound on 2+ but allows armor saves so isn't too bad. Although never let them near your dreadnoughts or vehicles as they count as S9 against vehicles.
Bright Lance: worthy of noting, will destroy land raiders with comparitive ease due to the lance rules. Makes armor greater than 12 count as 12. Units that can have it: Wraith lord, War walkers, falcons, grav platforms.
Falcons: one of the games best tanks. Not as good as it was in 4th but it was broken in 4th. Still can be deadly as it comes with a S8 heavy2 AP2 (or 3, forget) weapon standard and one other weapon. This can be anything from ML to bright lance to star cannon. If it moves 6" or less he can fire both of these weapons.
Prism Cannon: same as falcon but with one less gun, but the one gun it has is nasty. S9 AP2 blast or S5 AP4 large blast. Prism cannons can support each other to make their shots deadlier.
Wraithlords: T8 3 wounds 3+ save basically a dreadnought but without the dreadnought's pitfalls. S4 cannot wound T8! So make sure you pack powerfists and plasma/meltas for this mostrosity. Will tear apart your vehicles as it rolls 2D6 for penetration. But as it is not a vehicle, can be lashed away from you to buy more time to shoot it.
Dire Avengers: their troop aspects. Very effective with an 18" assault 2 weapon at ballistics 4. But only T3 with 4+ save.
Guardians: WS/BS3 5+ save. Dies easily but can have a warlock to boost its WS or (more popular) give them a 5+ cover save. Comes in to versions: Storm have pistol/ccw with up to 2 specials and defenders have assault 2 12" range and the ability to take a heavy weapon that can move and shoot. Very cheap and effective unit that benefits greatly from the powers of a farseer.
Phoenix Lords: Deadly, eternal, and makes the unit their with fearless.
Eldrad: Can cast 3 powers per turn and wounds on 2+ ignoring saves. But only 1 attack.
Prince Yriel: wounds on 2+ ignoring armor with 4 attacks! Can also unleash a S(forgot) AP3 large blast template centered on himself (but not wounding him) once a game. Very very deadly special character.
Dark Reapers: S5 heavy 2 Ap3 weapons with a 48" range and a exarch that can ignore cover. the ultimate ranged MEQ killer who also wear power armor.
There are more units to watch out for but those are the main threats to a CSM army imo
Last edited by MadLarkin; July 28th, 2008 at 21:03.
Yea I have gotten a new respect for Dire avengers, merely for all the fire they can throw at a unit, Ive heard they can use as muhc as 32 shots if the exarch takes two shuriken catapults and they use bladestorm. That can even put even nurgle termies and plague mariens in trouble due to the sheer volume of shots at bolter strength.