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At my local games store, it has somehow become understood that dangerous terrain tests do not allow invulnerable saves. the relevant passages are as follows:
"On the roll of a 1, the model suffers a wound, with no armour or cover saves allowed..."
by virtue of it explicitly mentioning armour and cover saves, instead of just flatly no saves, it seems to say that you can indeed take them. This is especially true considering the definition of invulnerable saves.
"Even if a wound normally ignores all armour saves, an invulnerable saving throw may still be taken."
seems clear-cut to me?
My problem lies in the fact that a local event runner is trying to use the "read the rules as intended" argument, stating that since your daemons are teleporting into ruins, the dangerous terrain test is them appearing inside walls, between floors, and etc.
As I would like to continue playing in this venue (plenty of good fellow players, within walking distance, and so on), how do I convince him of this without my stubbornness making me look like a poor sportsman, or a rules lawyer?
I guess what I'm looking for is confirmation of this ruling, preferrably an official source. Or has anyone else even had this contested before?
or you can just prove me wrong, which will make my life easier, at least off the table
It is pretty clear cut, and is how we run it at my local shop. Unfortunely I doubt this person will see reason when it is clearly written in the book. You'll probably have to wait for a 5th edition faq or see if you can get support from the other attendees, if they support you, he should rule in your favor.
No armor or cover saves, so invulnerables are obviously allowed.
To go by RAI, daemons are made of the stuff of the warp, perhaps their aura warped the terrain around them. The trees caught fire in the iridescent corona surrounding their summoning, the building wreckage turned to ash at their passing, or a generic forcefield pushed the terrain away.
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Seems pretty clear cut to me. Perhaps you should try showing it to other members in the group to try and get their support. Also you could just try showing it to the guy and seeing where he thinks that things wouldn't get and invuln save. Maybe if he just sees it that would help. Otherwise I'm not sure what there is you can do other than try to find another one of the guys working at the shop to try and settle it.
*edit* Try pointing out page 39. There it's dealing with CC but it specifically states that even if something disallows armor saves it still allows and invulnerable save to be made.
Last edited by grantneodude; August 11th, 2008 at 14:25.