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So I'm hearing all this talk about how 40k daemons are more of a painters army than a players, and how their wfb counterparts grab all the tourneys and such. I haven't yet played as I haven't finished painting yet, actually - I've just begun painting but had to take a break. So now I'm looking at those round bases and wondering... shouldn't I go with wfb instead?
I went for 40k because a) the flamers are way more awesome, b) the emphasis is on the smaller daemons and not on the greater ones like in wfb - I just don't like the idea of winning with one model, albeit impressive, c) I've heard that daemons in wfb play like OK, an army of which I already have.
But now... I'm in a pickle! Help!
From the Nightmares of Mortals, For the Greater Good of the Devourer of Worlds!
Well, there's a though question.
My experience is nothing like what you suggested.
I am no painter, 90% of my army is either half painted, or not at all.
I've played against nids, Eldar, Space Marines, Tau, Witch hunters and Imperial Guard.
One of my best friends is an expert in cost/effectiveness ratio's, the other in tactics.
Both are impressed by daemons, bordering them to overpowered.
Though they are by far not overpowered, they do what they do GOOD. 17 pts for seekers aint that much, and for horrors, I'd also pay 20 points.
GW put to big a disadvantige in deep striking, but I find that you can easely find a way around that.
I have no idea about wfb, but to say daemons ain't worth it, I would have to disagree.
but above all, isn't warhammer a game of fun? Isn't it all about annoying your opponent, and having a good time, whether you win or loose?
if so, then who cares about what "they" say?
I'd put them on square bases anyway, that way you can use them in both systems.
As for the competitiveness issue, Daemons are considered the uber cheese in Fantasy at the moment but in 40k it's different. People don't consider them too competitive (mostly due to the random nature of the army and its lack of anti-tank) but in the past couple GTs they've placed well.
To address your questions.
a) Flamers are awesome in both games, so you've got no problems there.
b) Either way works in both systems. GDs are big and impressive but Lesser Daemons and Heralds work just fine in Fantasy and 40k.
c) OK are not ItP and don't have army wide ward saves. They also don't have ranked infantry, flyers, Terror causing monsters, and awesome magic. Daemons have a lot of options in Fantasy and OK is very different from them.
Check out ==My== blog: www.bnhblog.blogspot.com
Demons are really good in WHFB and they are still very good in WH40k, The biggest issue I have seen with people around me that play demons is they have a set idea of how demons should play rather then how they can play well. 5th edition added a little more tactical strategy then 4th edition had. I am basing all mine on circles and just magnetizing the bases to rank them up. I play 40k almost exclusively but bought both the army book and codex. I think the square bases just look off in 40k and they are not as noticiable in fantasy when put in movement trays.
I just started daemons for 40k and so far I love it. I have only played one game so dont trust me when it comes to tactical and gamewinning(even if I did win that game and totally wiped out the other players). but I do know that the army was fun to play, very diffrent from all 3+ space mariens armies out there and that was just awsome in my book. so give it a try, I don´t think you will be disapointed. Btw, I´m making it hard for me and playing a mono list of nurgle but my gosh does it look nice all painted on the tabletop
I enquired about this to a GW staff member; his reply was "buy all your daemons for 40k, then buy a truckload of fanasy bases and just either blutac them on or magnetise them if you're feeling fancy"
I was amazed.... a GW dude actually pursuading me to save money by using the same army for 2 formats!
Not that I ever got round to buying any daemons...
Herald of the Colonel; Festooned with pistols, riddled with vermin, and finger lickin' good...
Daemons in Fantasy are definitely NOT in any way similar to Ogre Kingdoms. Whoever said that obviously hasn't played with either army very much.
To say that one model is going to win the game for you is false as well. Greater daemons in Fantasy are good, but they cost a fortune (about 1/4 of your army in 2000 points). Great Unclean Ones are probably the toughest of the Greater Daemons, especially when you buy them the armor that gives them regeneration (Hmm, 3 different saves on each wound...)
I'll be the first to say that Daemons in Fantasy are ridiculously overpowered. They are one of those armies that are hard to lose with. Nurgle units cannot be killed very easy and are nightmares in close combat, Khorne may die easier than Nurgle but they have twice the killing power in close combat, Slaanesh is probably the least competitive of the daemons but are more tactical and quick than the other units (think along the lines of elven armies), and Tzeentch gets so much magic that it's not even funny.
I composed an army list of Tzeentch/Nurgle, and I've seen a lot of builds along those lines. Ogres have to fight for their wins (I also have an OK army), Daemons only need to make some good decisions to be ok.
In 40k, there is definitely a different thought process behind the tactics. When you truthfully look at all the units in the list, they are pretty overpowered for their points cost (even Nurgle when you take into account Epidemius lists). I believe that this was intentional because of the unpredictability of Deep Striking. I usually lose 1 of my units due to deep striking mishaps, or my opponent will place a unit on the far side of the board so that they're pretty much useless.
The way that I see it is that Daemons in 40k are so new and so tactically different than the rest of the armies that some people don't understand how to formulate tactics around them. After some amount of time, we'll see a lot of people conceding that Daemons are pretty competitive after all.
As for bases, I'm doing dual 40k/fantasy models so I am putting everything on circle bases and will be making custom movement trays to show the area of the square bases. For skirmishers (flamers), I'm going to be making custom bases that will fit the circle bases inside.
Fantasy: Daemons (Angels), 40k: Black Templars
I am not sure how people have mishaps if you take into consideration how far you could deviate, your first turn should be the only turn for mishaps and if you dont put your guys right next to another unit of within 12 inches of a table edge you will be fine in 40k. With Deepstriking my tau even my sacraficial twin linked flamers and daemons I have had one mishap of about 50 deepstrikes. With run you no longer need to deepstrike as close to the enemy with the initial deepstrike.
A lot of it depends on the amount of terrain being used. At my new local store, about 50% of the board is terrain most of the time. If I roll a 6 or a 7 and scatter, I'm usually taking a mishap on the first turn. After the first turn, my Icons prevent any of that.
Fantasy: Daemons (Angels), 40k: Black Templars