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Tzeentch HQ : Points comparaison

820 views 12 replies 9 participants last post by  Skarsgard 
#1 ·
I was toying with my Thousand Sons army list and I realized that there are good differences between the differents HQ possibilities in term of points and efficiency. For the following example, all my HQ will be equiped with Warptime and Bolt of change in order to give them 2 psychic powers, one for close combat, the other for ranged shooting.

Here are my calculations

Sorcerer
Mark of Tzeentch (MoT hereafter)
Disk of Tzeentch
Warptime + Bolt of Change
----------------------------
Cost : 210 points

Options :
- Can deep strike (no beacon)
- Can fly
- Can kill tanks
- Can kill troops (gets an attack bonus)
- Can kill monsters (Force weapon)


Sorcerer
Mark of Tzeentch (MoT hereafter)
Wings
Warptime + Bolt of Change
----------------------------
Cost : 200 points

Options :
- Can deep strike (no beacon)
- Can fly
- Can kill tanks
- Can kill troops
- Can kill monsters (Force weapon)


Sorcerer
MoT
Terminator Armor (comes relatively cheaper than with the lord)
Warptime + Bolt of Change
----------------------------
Cost : 195 points

Options :
- Can deep strike (using beacon)
- Can kill tanks
- Can kill troops
- Can kill monsters (Force weapon)
- Can deep strike within a terminator squad

Daemon Prince
MoT
Wings
Warptime + Bolt of Change
----------------------------
Cost : 200 points

Options :
- Can deep strike (no beacon)
- Can fly
- Can kill tanks
- Can kill troops
- Can kill monsters
- Immune to instant death
- Harder to kill than the sorcerer
- Better fighter than the sorcerer (+1A, +2S, +1T, +2ws)
- Easier to target than the sorcerer

So, of these 4 options, the sorcerer on a Disk of Tzeentch seems to be the worst one. The daemon prince seems to be the best option availlable as a Tzeentch HQ (I haven't considered the lord). What do you say ?
 
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#3 ·
MindRaked - an impressive guide as usual, we expect little else of you ;)

However, I have something I'd like to discuss:

- Can kill monsters (Force weapon)
Is that really a fair assessment of a character who's in grave danger of not being able to injure said monster and then subsequently being instakilled by said monster?

I don't deny it can't happen. What my point is.... is that, it seems to be something which is so rare that it shouldn't really be factored into regular tactics.

If push comes to shove, yes, you can take your Sorceror and try and fend off the monster and hopefully get lucky... but, as something to rely on? I'd rather take a gamble with a cheaper model/unit.

Sorry, I don't mean to be so negative mate - this is a minor observation. It's a great guide :)

Karmoon
 
#7 ·
MindRaked - an impressive guide as usual, we expect little else of you ;)

However, I have something I'd like to discuss:



Is that really a fair assessment of a character who's in grave danger of not being able to injure said monster and then subsequently being instakilled by said monster?

I don't deny it can't happen. What my point is.... is that, it seems to be something which is so rare that it shouldn't really be factored into regular tactics.

If push comes to shove, yes, you can take your Sorceror and try and fend off the monster and hopefully get lucky... but, as something to rely on? I'd rather take a gamble with a cheaper model/unit.

Sorry, I don't mean to be so negative mate - this is a minor observation. It's a great guide :)

Karmoon
I agree with you on this point, but still a 6 is a 6 and with warptime, it's bound to happen once in a while. I wouldn't send a sorcerer against a monster that's immune to instant death though. I have to admit that I don't realy consider it when it comes to my HQ choice.

And you are not negative, you are observative :Þ
 
#9 ·
How many monsters AREN'T immune to instant death? Wraithlord and a carifex IF it's outsiede synapse are all I can think of.

Or are you refering to multiwound models as 'monsters' and not just Monsterous Creatures?
 
#11 ·
Consider any multi wound Tyranid model within synapse as immune. Hive Tyrants, Brood Lords, Raveners, Zoanthropes, Carnifexes, Red Terrors, Lictors...

The list goes on and on. This isn't a point which I want to labour, and I will be the last one to derail MindRaked's threat, however, more than anything I just wanted to make my fellow chaos players aware of this situation. If you're aware, then you can figure it out yourself... or make as many mistakes as you need to before you can figure it out.
 
#10 ·
Ok let me think *brainstorms*

Talos
Undivided Greater Daemon


ummmm......Sure I'm missing one.... XD


Nope I think that's it.



Well, still its fairly reliable with warptime and a disc.


I would run either the daemon prince with Warptime and Wind, or the Sorcerer on disc.
 
#13 ·
The force weapon is handy against IC's, especially ones with no invulnerable save.

It seems to me that the issue with HQ's is that the DP is either underpriced or the other options are overpriced. The fact that the DP is so cheap and powerful means you can use it as a fire magnet to draw fire from other units. If he dies, no worries you've got the rest of your army in position for the kill.

Lord's seem to be an option that is seldom taken, I think if they had removed the drawback of daemon weapons then more people would take them.
 
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