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Please use this thread to discuss tactics against Eldar and share advice.
Please don't feel afraid of bumping this thread as and when you need to. The purpose is to create an archive of useful information against Eldar.
To me, Eldar are still have the most broken codex in current 40K.
Holo Fields aside, their units are far too powerful for their cost.
They can out-number us, out-gun us and out-CC us simply because of their unbalanced codex.
As a result they're a threat which can never be underestimated.
However, hope is not lost!
Through superior tactics, use of deepstrike and other assets we can give the Eldar what they deserve - a powerfist through the face.
So please take it away!
Try to keep discussion relevant. Every once in a while I'll comb over these threads to clean up any superfluous posts.
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric
I get annoyed when formor eldar players whine and say Eldar tanks are no more than flyinf paper mache'. They are still dealy, load up a bright lance of scatter laser and thats alot of shots. plus the missile launchers are annoying. The bright lance makes our preds and land raiders supirior armor weaker.
Their psykik powers are real annoying, so an autocannon/krak missile/ melta/ lacannon aimed at the farseer can ruin their plan. I find that a squad of havocs work better than tanks as we can add models to soak up hits.
We need to get into CC ASAP, though the eldars aspect warriros can come close to if nor match us. Banshees and scorpions are a prime threat in close comnbat. Then you got their Avengers and reapers which can shoot use to death before we get into range. Spiders and hawks can always get out of our way. And harlies, well, the less said about them the better.
Perhaps their most deadly unit, more deadly than the Avatar, is the
Wraithlord, that thing is TOUGH.
If a Million Guardsmen die, that's a statistic. If one marine dies, that's a tragedy.
I would suggest putting the lord in termie armor to increase his survivability in CC against the Waithlord, and also so he can deep strike on an icon to get him there without the threat of brightlances and such...
cut off the head and.....the rest of a smart saying.
just as a response to stratarose, poisoned weapons reroll to wound on enemy toughness 4 or below.
but i do hate eldar. just no experience.
Take my words with a grain of salt, i am not the tactical genius i think i am!
I find that templates of all sorts do wonders against Gaurdians. One of the units that pisses me off the most is the striking scorpions. Way too many attacks for the points. Some of the best luck that I have had is with my noise marines and a vindicator with daemonic possession.
I played a three way game last night against Eldar and Nrecons. It ended up being a tatical draw. One thing that happened was an epic battle between my Daemon Prince (MoS,wings,Lash) and a Avatar. Needless to say my DP got a world class ass kicking. How would you deal with Avatars and C'tan Deceivers?
Last edited by Karmoon; November 23rd, 2008 at 09:13.
I think that fifth fixed about 90% of the overpowered problems with the eldar codex, I think that for the most part it is fair and balanced and makes for a great and even matchup against chaos or space marines.
The only real brokenness comes from Eldrad and seer coucils on jetbikes, IMO. Fire Prisms are tough, but I'd say doable.
Most of the old problems were from Falcons that could move and shoot, you could only ever get glances and they could first turn fly into your lines with no fear and unload their cargo exactly where they wanted it. Now they can't really shoot much, unless they stay still, and if they stay still they get no 4+. And now, they get that 4+, not an automatic glance. Couple this with the fact that their most dangerous and overpowered cargo were harlequins, which are just a good choice now.
If you're having trouble against them I don't know what kind of list you are facing, but I think the toughest is still mechanized. As long as you concentrate on taking out their transports/ their superior mobility, I think you should be ok.
The have the advantage of speed and higher initiative and/or more specialized units. Their close combat is better than our, their shooting is better than our, but if you look at the units if they are good at one thing, they are generally not too good at the other, where ours are good at both.
Try to not take an all out shooty or assaulty chaos force and you should have a good chance of pulling off a victory. If you take all berserkers, you may lose, their close combat is faster and has plenty to ignore your armour, or your lack of shooting means they can outmanouvre you.
If you take gunline, once they get to you you're done for.
You need a good amount of basic troops that have moderate mobility, maybe some raptrs with two special. A good, but not too expensive HQ. Don't try to outdo him at anything. This way, your marines can do whatever they need to do. If he takes wave serpents with dire avengers, you have some shooting to take the serpents down, but then you don't try to have a firefight with the DA, you assault them, and here you have the advantage. Banshees, scorpions, harlequins need rapid fire death, or even midrange heavy bolters and the like.
Wraithguard have two attacks. They hit you on what, 4's? Not too big a worry, that's what powerfists are for.
Many of their troops have a 4+ save, Raptors or bike with flamers can get you close and a chance to shoot and then charge.
Pathfinders are good, but they have no save whatsoever, and everyone should have some flamers these days.
Watch out for Dark Reapers, they have range, a good save and with guide or doom can really reek havoc. Make sure these are taken out immediately.
I don't know what to tell you about farseers. We have little defence against their psychic powers. They just have to be assaulted. Unless we are talking a seer council with fortune or something, in which case I already said they are a bit broken, so I have little advice for you other than take heart in the fact that they are expensive.
And shoot the crap out of Eldrad now that he can be targetted or assault him with alot of attacks, so he will fail his rerollable save, and he loses alot of psychic ability once tied up in close combat.
That's all I got for now. I love playing Eldar.
The pansies of the forty first millennium....
The best advice I can give for facing Eldar is KNOW YOUR ENEMY... They are an army with units that are excellent at single rolls with 40k.
Starting with the fact that they army is mostly toughness <3 or >6 and their transports are fast skimmers can make for some difficult ingame decisions and tough battles. The old standbys that this forum preaches, work wonders against eldar. 4 Terminators that can unload 6 S7 shots and a S5 flamer from deepstike is invaluable against such a diverse enemy. Obliterators are priceless against eldar. I had one stand up to a harlie charge in 5th. Our standard 10 CSM with fist and 2 plas, can deal with the low toughness units as well as the monsters.
The following is a list of common eldar units and how I would deal with them in a perfect world.
Avatar/ Wraithlords/ Wraithgaurd- high T, good saves- volumes of quality shots. - Obliterators, rapid fire plasmaguns, Lascannons, melta guns,demolisher cannons/ avoid getting tarpitted and/or shot by these units at all costs.
Dire avengers/Jet bike guardians/Farseers- low T, mediocre saves- volumes of low/mid strength shots. - dakka preds, CSM squads, shoot their pants off!!/ these are the bread and butter type units in the army, annoying and deadly when used in conjunction with the other parts.
Aspect Warriors- low T, mediocre/MEQ saves- Combined assault these guys with CSM's, Lords, Raptors, Demon princes, outflanking chosen, icons help here, nurgle/tzeench /These are the guys that get ya. Overall I'd rather charge with my CSMs then be charged by banshees or harlies. I find if I can weather the initial storm I usually come out on top.
As was mentioned earlier, your best defense against Eldar is to know us. Our elites and heavy support are what you should fear the most, unless they're pulling seer council cheese.
Ask what is in each transport, and know what the answers mean. Banshees can be scary, but if you play nurgle, you don't have much to worry about. Scorpions are deadly in close combat, but remember, they only have 1 power fist in the squad and it is 2 points of S less than a marine with a powerfist. Termies will eat them for breakfast. Firedragons have 1 shot and it is only at half bolter range. Make sure they don't get there. Harlequins have been greatly reduced, but they're still tough.
Heavy Support basically the same as the other armies heavy support, use heavy weapons against it or ignore it.
Eldar troop choices aren't much to write home about, they mostly won't be getting through your armor, and they likely won't beat you in CC. If DA get to bladestorm and charge, they will likely beat a full squad though.
On fast attack though, be aware of spiders, they can't penetrate your armor but they get high volume and high strength and they're a bugger for you to kill. Take them out when the opportunity presents itself.
Deploy your units where they can back each other up. Set up counter charges because you probably won't get the charge. Know what hurts you and why.
BTW, against AV 13 a brightlance is no better than a lascannon (and depending on what the lascannon's ap is, I forget, it may be worse). It is only when against AV 14 that the brightlance truly shines.
Most anti-tank weaponry is located on either transports or wraithlords or fireprisms and is single shot. It is limited in quantity. Take advantage of that.
Continued from earlier:
One army you might run into is the Str6 high ap spam, if you do, move forward as fast as possible and bolter everything. Our cheapest armors can be glanced by bolters and can be destroyed on a glancing hit.
Our transports are our best single weapons platform, even if they are empty they are not harmless, and they are not weak.
Learn how to kill everything the Eldar have. (Heavy bolters are one of the best weapons against us. Don't know how many you all have. . .)
Don't ignore any objectives, we can cover an amazing amount of ground very fast with a variety of units. Don't think that one is beyond our reach.
Alternatively, focus on enough objectives (preferably nearby to one another) to win the game and give us the rest with only a token effort.
Kill Troops. Our troops are not great. They're not survivable and they're not killy (unless they get bladestorm and charge on you, then you will have a problem.)
Tzeentch and Nurgle against Banshees, nurgle and maybe khorne (probably not) against Scorpions.
Continued from previous:
If you're up against the seer-council of doom, remember they ignore toughness but they do not ignore armor. (Unless they have Eldrad, he can, or the Iyanden Prince, which is uncomon.) Termies can probably hold their own, after that nurgle (FNP ftw) or Khorne (though Khorne will probably end up loosing despite). Focus on the Far-seer as much as possible.
Shining spears will wreck your day. Period. But they cost more than a termy. Focus anti-infantry fire on them because they'll have an invul save after they turbo boost.
Swooping hawks, if played uber cheese, can virtually guarentee to contest up to 3 objectives last turn and there is nothing you can do about it. If you can spread out enough over an objective you may have a chance of ruining their deepstrike, though, that is your only hope there.
So the best anti-eldar is, IMO, Nurgle. After that Tzeentch and Khorne probably rank approximately the same. I do not like Slaanesh vs. Eldar, sure you might be fast enough to keep up with us, but it doesn't matter because we'll be better at everything else. Termies will be a great weapon, or a liability, depending on the amount of shooting your eldar opponent packs (or the presence of Banshees) you may consider deepstriking them near a troublesome unit rather than leaving them open for fire if your opponent is using much shooty or is using banshees, but star cannons have fallen out of favor, so they're not near the liability they were.
I didn't mention wraithguard yet. Get as many power fists into the wraithguard as possible, then sit back and watch them cry.
And yet again: To deal with the avatar, high strength weaponry to get past its toughness. It's a fairly slow model, so it shouldn't be high priority, and remember, its save is invul so AP doesn't matter. Also read its rule about what weapons will not work against it, there are a number of weapons that won't, don't use those. (I'm not going to say what because of copyright, if it is okay to say can either say it or let me know.) They're fire based weapons though.
Last edited by ShadowcatX; November 25th, 2008 at 17:02.
Everything I have told you, even this, is a lie.
With Eldar don't spread out your forces, using the phalanx formation makes them attack your whole army at once instead of isolating separated elements. Basic chaos space marines would be the best counter for the seer council and most other eldar. With a mark of nurgle they do just as well as plague marines against banshees (since you won't get FNP anyway) but even without they're cheap enough and versatile enough to be effective.
The best way to kill that seer council is force lots of saves, sure he'll rerolls and such but once you engage them in close combat you can put out enough attacks to kill a couple
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