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Title is pretty self explanatory, in my local GW, there seems to be an abundance of CC armies, particulary, horde armys. recently I have faced 3 seperate nid armies, 1 chaos (khorne) 2 orks, and surprisingly a cron rush army. and im a pretty shooty guy at heart, but im considering converting due to the success of these armies
but back to my original question, what would you think, would be the best HQ to send against the incoming enemy horde?
Abaddon the Despoiler (for the renowned pain he brings)
Fabius bile (too random for my liking)
Huron Blackheart (never tried him, seems to me like an over zealous CSM)
Typhus (what I initially though of using, seems to be the HQ for CC, cept ofcourse...)
Khárn the Betrayer (had resonable success with him, though ive found he cant really deal with a horde)
Ahriman (gift of chaos is the only real benefit in my humble opinion
Lucius the Eternal (sort of a bug zapperish (if that is a word) effect with his armour of Shrieking Souls)
Zhufor (no idea about this guy)
Daemon prince (various effect, please state what you would choose and why)
Chaos lord (various effect, please state what you would choose and why)
Chaos Sorcerer (various effect, please state what you would choose and why)
I've got all the models except abaddon and the silly amount on combinations between DP, lord and sorcerer
and before people start jumping in with walkers and other non-HQ related points, this is a thread to see what HQ would be best used in this circumstance
please, and I really mean that, please, comment away
maybe you could use 2 deamon princes with lashes of submission to push the hoards back so you could buy more shooting time maybe with some vindicators or something
but thats my 2 cents good luck
yeah thats the tactic i usual employ, lash of cheese... but i think people are getting smart to our chaotic ways, lots of the smallest size zerg units, typically the basic troop, and as the demon prince can only push 2 units back per turn, the shootys get swarmed pretty soonish.
thats why i made the post, to see a viable alternative to 2x DP with LoS, to deal with close combat effectively
but thank you for your input
I think the answer greatly depends on a few things, namely: points of the battle and what the rest of your list looks like. I don't think a single model will guarantee you a win against horde lists.
well its going to depend on the points i have left to allocate, but roughly the list looks like:
2 units of khorne berzerkers with rhino each
termies with lightning claws, in most cases the retinue
dreadnought with CC arms or greater deamon, bit unsure about that atm
thats just a rough idea, based on 1000pt armie obviously, units and upgrades would be added and taken away depending on my HQ choice and allocated army points ofcourse, but atleast you get a rough idea of my list now
I would be drop the land raider and dreadnought/greater demons at that point level and add units of vanilla CSM's in rhinos!!!
i'd try to keep it cheap and get more marines for the saved pounts cost. our marines seem to be pretty good at stabbing big units in the face with their lots of attacks in close combat and their bolters. so maybe a barebone khorne daemon prince with wings or a lord with a no-mark daemon weapon (not that expensive but still killy) could come in handy. you could also take a sorcerer with wind of chaos and maybe wings for less than 150 points.
if you don't mind the randomness you could try a khorne lord with daemon weapon, who really should slaughter whole units if he manages to not hit himself in the face.
I totally agree- some CMS squads would be good. Esp as your ownly scoring units atm are zerkers, and their probably gonna be caught up in CC most of the time against hoardes.
HQ: gotta agree with Moschaboy- khorne lord would be useful- an insane amount of attacks, that are probably gonna striek first- except I think against genesterlers, which might be a problem.
I'd personally never use a special character in anything under 1,500- and thats still pushing it.
A Greater Daemon would be nice, but I'd be hesitant to sacrafice a Aspiring champ or better to get it. Maybe a daemon prince instead.
Heavy Support: have you thought about a Defiler- dunno if you will have points- but most CC units won't be able to touch it in combat, and it'll be able to take care of those pesky warbosses and carnifexes if anyone has any. A drednought would also be a good way to tie up large but weaker units of CC, such as basic orks (as long as they don't have powerfist) whilst your zerkers sought out other units.
Just a random thought- have you considered using thousand sons? Great AP bolters which are always range 24 even when moving. The sorcerer could have Wind of chaos maybe. You could then fill up some points with havocs squads with 4 heavy bolters- would wipe out several hoarde squads before they get to use- specially since their toughness and armour will be pretty bad most of the time.
Hope this helps .
SM: W/D/L 12/7/4 CSM: W/D/L 14/0/1
Guard: W/D/L 10/2/3 Orks: W/D/L 5/0/1
Nurlge Daemons W/D/L 4/1/0
I agree with Lordray, Tzeentchi units are great for hurting any CC army, and i would like to add that a Lord with the mark of Tzeentch can dish out up to six strength four AP 3 shots a turn, at the same range as a bolter. Why not give him a unit of Thousand SOns led by a Sorceror with WInd of CHaos and stick the at the centre of your army. You can still use a Slaaneshi Demon prince with lash to fly around and wreak havoc in your enemy advance but this way you can still wreak vast amounts of damage to the enemy.
Against these opponents why not play your berzerkers defensively and rush them into combat just before you get charged so you can take advantage of the Furious Charge. A defiler would also be a good addition to your army as its battle cannon will blow up heaps of enemies then can Fleet into assault and tie up a numerous low strength enemy for eternity. Maybe drop the termi's so you can go for a unit of CHaos Marines so you can still play your normal shooty style. If you have a preferred technique i think you should go for it. No strategy is more valid than another.
Finally, after you have shot/CC the crap out of the enemy, you can rhino rush the objectives in 2/3 missions.
Hope this helps and i am not barking up the wrong tree
I use daemon weapon of khorne lord.
I think it can reach 17 attacks max, which is fairly nice, I've wiped out a full squad of tau fire warriors with it once.